I've been fucking around with some SB and BB Def ranges. Thoughs?

Posted 8 years ago

So lateley i've started learning about polarized 3bet ranges so i made these. I have no idea if they are even close to ''Legit'' ranges so feedback would be nice! Laugh
(Im playing 6max 10NL)

As BB vs EP and MP:
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As SB vs EP and MP:
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As BB vs BTN:
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As SB vs BTN:
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inb4 3bet to high? c:
eroticjesus

Last Post 8 years ago by

eroticjesus

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Posted 8 years ago
Blind-play is all about sizing from the openraiser, against which sizing you want to start?
Posted 8 years ago
when i made this i was thinking about x3. This is not firm ofc, il ajust to stats ect.
Posted 8 years ago
when i made this i was thinking about x3. This is not firm ofc, il ajust to stats ect.
Posted 8 years ago
Whilst we are on the issue of sizing every video I seem to be watching now shows most coaches opening at 3.5X. Thoughts on this strategy?
Posted 8 years ago
Okay, how do you construct your ranges? Looks very ill-conceived to me.

I can help you but it is easier to help when I know your thought process.
Posted 8 years ago
i dunno man, i've allways opened x3 in EP, MP and CO while opening x2 in BTN.
Posted 8 years ago
@eroticjesus maan i've no idea what im doing when i created these ranges. Im just starting to learn about polarized and merged ranges so i wanted to make a polarized 3bet range for every pos against like 70%+ Fold to 3bet. Atm i have noone to discuss this stuff with. It would be so much easier to discuss this on skype or TS tbh while using teamviewer.
Posted 8 years ago*
Skype and Teamviewer ---> $70-110$ per hour VAT inklusive (yep I pay taxes) but only in German Cheeky

Just kidding but you have a good idea, I think it is crucial to talk with other players to become a winning player or get better. I think here are enough friendly guys playing microstakes and look for buddies to learn the game, just ask in another thread Smile

But for now, step by step. It's not easy to write in English for me, thats why I start now and mabye write the next post later/tomorrow.

First of all, forget about beeing polarized or merged or whatever. Your goal should be getting maximum expected value from every hand you play. If you find the maximum expected value preflop for every hand in your range (impossible but we can get some approximations) you'll get some byproducts like balancing or beeing "merged" or "polarized".

Next step to construct good preflopranges: do basic pokermath, like pot odds, equity (robust non-robust), EV, stuff like that. When I write a content-post I assume that the reader understand that math behind. Furthermore for constructing preflop-ranges google for "realization factor" (R), there is a good post on 2+2 about that realization-factor. With a bit logic you can construct better ranges.

I'll show you that logic and tools to construct better ranges, with your examples in this and the nexts posts.


BB vs. EP

Scenario: Villain opens from UTG 3bb, the others fold, we are in the BB and have some advantages now: we close the action and got good pot odds. We have to pay 2bb to see a flop with a pot of 6,5bb, with most of our hands our goal is get back only 2bb of that 6,5bb in the long run to be more profitable than folding hand X, keep that in mind, we can x/f very often postflop and mabye play a wider range than villains frequency only because of that fact.

Pot odds:

4,5bb are in the pot we have to call 2bb, getting pot odds 2,25:1 ~30,8%

---> we need 30,8% equity to make a profitable call.


Here are hands with 30,8% Equity against "standard" tight/solid ~16% UTG-Range.


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Okay, logic, way too wide, right? right. We now adjust the required equity first for the whole range because it is easier. I think 90% realization is a good start point.

30,08 / 0,9 = 33,42

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Thats a good startpoint. Now we have to think about the hands which are obv not good or mabye not good to call. You can do that with R and say, "okay Axo has an R of 0,8 or 53s has an R nearly 1" I dont know the correct factors but with some logic and experience we can get a good result.


Start with Axo:

ATo ---> call, to much equity to fold.
A9o ---> close but even if we realize only 80% of our equity, we have a +EV call and 80% is a tight view imo. but mabye the equity is bad (nonrobust), okay A9 often has to fold on the flop as the best hand oop, Axx ---> often dominted, most of the time we have no opportunity to bluff with that hand in logical way. ---> fold.

Now we know that ATo+ are +EV defends

If A9 is a bad call, is K9o bad too? Yes it's bad against UTG just muck it.

Offsuit Broadways:

KQo: "equity-call" easy
KJo: mh, good equity but villains weakest Kx is mabye K9s (4 combos), KTs (4combos) ---> 8 weaker Kx and KQo, KQs, AKo, AKs = 32 better Kx + no opportunities to make good bluffs, we are in bluffcatch-mode with that hands, thats only good with way more equity.

Okay, next hands in short.

Pockets:

easy calls.

Now the suited side:

Axs all defends

Kxs ---> K9s+ are good defends, below is tricky because the better Kx in Villains range but KTs and K9s is better to call because of good flushes and bit potential to bluff +EV postflop.

Same for Qx and Jxs

Suited connectors:

We realize our equity well with all suited connectors and 43s is the threshold. SCs make good hands and have good potential to make good bluffs because if we checkraise 43s on 862r with backdoorflushdraw, we only make better hands fold and we are drawing to hands which beats villains calls.

With hands like 43s or 54s we make low straights and villain has only few low straights in his range (some of them we dominate but some of them dominates us, depends on villains range obv) and we can justify x/r more often on lowboards where calling is tricky because 2 streets left and our calls are often obv hands.

Call all 43s+ or 54s+

Suited onegapper:

Same like suited connectors, I think 53s is the threshold.

3gapper:

close, the higher the gap the less equity we realize, thats why we should fold them against 3bb (I hope this is an english sentence^^)

Okay, now we have our raw defend range.

3betting:

There is no rule of thumb where our value-3bets ends.

60% Equity is a good start point, but only for this positions.

AA - QQ obv value
AKs - obv value
AKo - not that obv there are advantages in call and in 3bet, but standard should be 3bet
AQs - 3betting is good because weaker hands call and good equity fold but, if villain opens QJo a call is mabye better than 3bet.
JJ- close but fine, we deny equity and weaker hands call, we also can call but playing JJ as non-aggressor is hard in all spots.

Bluffs:

Villain has a strong range which can defend well against 3bets from the bb. Furthermore a lot of hands are nice calls and the other hands which are top fold range play not well in 3bet pots.

I think it is okay to use crap Axo and some low suited connectors, Axo block call and 4bet-range and the low suited connectors play well against calls and can call against small 4bets.

Your range:

well constructed with your state of skill Smile

KQs: There are some spots where KQs is a good 3bet but not against UTG, because all weaker Kx fold and the better call or 4bet, but well good equity is going to fold and some flips call and good bluff opportunities postlop. I think you should call. Same for KJs.

Axs: play better in 3bet pots than in single raised pots, mabye it is okay to 3bet!


Note about sizing:

The openraise sizing has a big impact for our strategy. If Villain raise smaller, like 2x our required Equity decrease and we can call way more often even if villain raises the same range. Easy folds become easy calls now. On the other hands, if he make it bigger, we have to fold more often and maybe 3bet some hands which are calls against 3bb.



Next range tomorrow.
Posted 8 years ago
Wooow maan, thanks alot! this really helped me seeing the thought process when constructing a range, cant stress this enough! +Rep @eroticjesus !
Posted 8 years ago
Thx Smile

Now SB-Concepts:

Scenario: EP opens 16% Range 3bb, we have to call 2,5bb to see a flop with 7bb pot. Pot odds are worse now, 1,8:1, means we need 35,7% equity to call, right? No. BB has the opportunity to squeeze a lot if we call and he get wonderful pot odds. With your callrange a squeeze will suck and a multiway-pot often sucks also.

SBvs.X is a bad spot for a callingrange and a polarized 3bet-strategy. You only should have calls if you're facing a 2x openraise because more hands are EV(call) > EV(3bet) because of pot odds.

Furthermore SB is no position to make big money, a simple gameplan is needed and this will be 3bet only.

To get a good frequency for your 3bet, just take the frequency of the openraiser (16%) and multiply it with 0.33 and you'll get your target-frequency for your strategy.

Okay, against EP 16% you want to 3bet ~5-6%, 16*0,33 = 5,28, we dont have to be accurate because I think this is too low but a good point to start with.

Which hands to 3bet?

The obv ones are QQ-AA and AK ~ 34 Combos = 2,6%

We want to be linear because calling the SB is bad and construct a linear range with a given frequency should be easy, add the borderline hands firstly.

AQo? yes
KQo? meh, we rise up our frequency to much and this hand plays crappy against UTG-Open (mabye good exploit against guys folding too much)
AQs? obv 3bet
KQs? ugly fold, and suited, 3bet
JJ? weaker hands call, equity folds, ugly against 4bets, but that is a low frequency, should 3bet
QJs? make some nutstraights when villain has twopair and can flop good equity, should 3bet


Frequency now ---> 4,8% we can add some hands.

AJs is nice because weaker hands call, good equity folds, we block 4bet range

TT is like JJ, mabye TT has a higher EV in calling than in 3betting, but if we only call TT or mabye TT and AQo, our range is totally face up, we dont want to be face up.

5,6% now. In theory this is enough.

I see no problems to 3bet 99, ATs, KJs and JTs in this spot.

For exploitative reasons you can add more combos, start with A2s-A5s and suited broadways or 88

Now it's your part, with this tools you can construct the other ranges. It will be a lot of work and mabye it is tough with not that much knowledge about poker but it is important for your progress to do the work away from tables for yourself with some help and not only ask and copy Smile
Posted 8 years ago
@eroticjesus THANKS ALOT MAN. i really appriciate what you're doing here. Its like you answer my questions before i get time to ask them. I learned so much from this. Cant stress this enough! Laugh

(if i were a 18yr old girl i would totaly suck you off)
Posted 8 years ago
Zippo: @eroticjesus THANKS ALOT MAN. i really appriciate what you're doing here. Its like you answer my questions before i get time to ask them. I learned so much from this. Cant stress this enough! Laugh

(if i were a 18yr old girl i would totaly suck you off)

Strong candidate for post of the year LOL
Posted 8 years ago
Nice job eroticjezus, love the step by step explanation of your thought process. Learned a shitload from this.
Posted 8 years ago
Joskroket: Nice job eroticjezus, love the step by step explanation of your thought process. Learned a shitload from this.


First post welcome! Was this the first thread you read on the forum also?

@eroticjesus ladies and gentlemen!
Posted 8 years ago*
Hi Jon, no i'm a regular visitor of pokervip and have learned a lot since starting to study poker a year ago. I'm studying like crazy, reading books, follow courses and watching video's. This site has been very very useful for me. I don't post "technical" poker posts because i don't want to make a fool out of myself Wink
I like this post especially because it gives the thought process behind the ranges. Often in poker video's and in posts you hear the pro's discuss some action and reply like "I don't mind the raise here, I like the check, It's not in my range...." etc and as a novice i always assume everyone knows why exactly that is.

@eroticjesus clarified now the logic behind construction defending ranges and everything we should think about.
Posted 8 years ago
That was legit! @eroticjesus
Posted 8 years ago
Great read! Smile Thanks @eroticjesus

Just to confirm, you would recommend folding KQo in SB vs. EP raise?
Posted 8 years ago
Thx guys Smile

@colly191091 : right, fold > call or 3bet with KQo SB vs EP but against minrase you can justify calling imo.