I am very satisfied with the equipment of work and for the opportunity that they are giving me, I am giving the better thing of my to improve as player and to help those of my team!

GOGOGOGOGO!

Dont agree that its missing your chance in poker.... abz left and made the final 30 in wpt on his own... all he had to do was bink it and he would have a huge roll....

Its a good system for some but not for all

Relying on a "bink" is far from reliable to say the least. Also, no amount of money can prevent you from going broke in the long run if you're not a winning player, therefore building your roll slowly by becoming better at the game is both more reliable and far more likely than winning a big tournament.

Balances of good PokerStars regs are full of money donated by lucky Sunday Million winners.

Since when binking means succeeding in poker? The truth is if you fail to do enough during the staking you definitely going to fail to do enough on your own. Name one person from the group that is further in cash games than when they left staking. I bet most of them don't even play poker anymore.

Not saying its the ideal way... and im not saying binking a tournament means you have succeeded in poker.... what i am saying is that it can give a decent player a roll to bankroll with.... its just one way that can help you succeed

Bankroll is the main thing behind the staking group... apart from that pokervip offers everything else that is needed.... hand reviews video reviews and strategy talk can all be done through the forums....

So saying that they have thrown away their chance in poker is a ludicrous claim... all the tools are here.

As you said bankroll is the main thing behind the staking, so if you have skills to crush NL100 you will be staked for it. So far nobody made it so even though binking gives you a decent bankroll they still wouldn't have a skill to be there. I don't know if I maybe accidentally addressed you personally and said that you won't succeed. I really hope you prove me wrong. But to be honest, this is the way I feel about it.

Then, I wouldn't say bankroll is the main thing behind the staking group, is of course part of it, but the main thing the staking offers is the environment to succeed. It is a mixture of support and pressure to work hard every day and achieve the goals. I think that may be the reason why so many people actually dropped out. Because they see it as a simple transaction, but what's behind is the amount of work Jon puts into each person. The amount of times I've been doubting my game, having mindset problems and he was always there talking it through with me and supporting. This is the staking. Not the bankroll.

Now of course if you see staking as money it would indeed be a ludicrous claim to say no one's gonna succeed without it. Money always can be obtain in some way. The question is whether those who left can work hard on their own when they couldn't do it with so much support. Of course, I'm not judging anyone I actually hope I'm going to be proved wrong one day, but for me the huge part of poker is work ethic and I feel staking puts them to the test.

No no it wasnt personal mate... i think there have been a few good stakees who have the skills to make it... they need to work hard to get there... but its not impossible.

I get what your saying about the environment that the staking offers. I also think it doesnt suit everyone. Which is why i think a lot leave. Yes its pressurised but to some that is counterproductive. Its not a huge amount of hands to complete and fairly easy to complete but that doesnt make it not an intense atmosphere.

Some like to be able to play when they feel like it. Not feel like they have to play.

To say that if you fail during staking you will fail on your own is wrong.

Poker isnt a team game in the first place. Its upto an individual to get as much information from as many places as posible and build a game that works. So ultimately its down to that person regardless if they are staked or not.

Most (not all) poker players are lazy. So if they are going to make it they will do it themself. By nature lazy people dont like being told what to do or follow rules that require effort. They will do it when they feel like it... does that make sense? Ha

First of all, this is a huge generalization and second of all being "lazy" is not a quality and shouldn't be an argument in the discussion. Effort is necessary to succeed at poker and there's an ideal amount of pressure you should be under to operate at your best (google Yerkes–Dodson law or "flow"). It's true that too much pressure can be just as bad as no pressure at all, but some amount of pressure is necessary.

Think about it. Would you say what you wrote above to your landlord when he's asking for rent? Or to the professor who asks why you skipped a couple of classes? Or to your girlfriend when she confronts you after you failed to show up at a date? "Lazy" is not a valid argument in any other discussion so it shouldn't be a valid argument here. You're constantly told what to do in direct or indirect ways by the government, by the marketers, by your superiors or by your friends and family members, and often for a good reason.

Oh and you mentioned that poker is not team game... this is precisely the reason why coaching and study group are among the most effective tools for improving at poker. It's crucial to have someone who can contest your preconceived notions because human mind has this amazing capacity of rationalizing everything and we all have this amazing capacity to think that we're far better than we actually are ("75% of poker players think they are better than... the other 75% of players"). Very few players will ever admit to themselves that their strategy might not be very good. Most of us think we're playing solid, but since in poker only 10% or so players can be winners due to the existence of rake it becomes obvious that we often give ourselves way too much credit.

PokerVIP staking is a great opportunity. It's certainly not the only way of becoming successful at poker but it's one of the better ones and given the fact that only a few people so far managed to take advantage of it goes to show how hard it might be to become good at poker on your own.

To go out on a lighter note, but still highlight how hard it is to win at poker I'll quote my good friend: "No money for cane sugar... everyone's solid!".

There is of course the perceived responsibility of not letting the staker down, a problem I seem to be cursed with, which adds some tension if one is of a conscientious nature.

I think being staked, particularly within a group environment, can encourage one to further improvement than they might necessarily achieve on their own. The whole environment is poker focused, lessening the impact of external distractions, if only for the time spent within that environment.

My point is that staking isn't just 'Get given a bankroll, learn to play, win money.' That's a far too simplistic view in my opinion and the interactions are more complex than a superficial glance can explain. The problem being the superficial view is I think, mostly as far as people get when applying.

Perhaps it's more than the above and some may seek other interactions and benefits rather than the 'mere' offer of a stake.

I hope I made some sort of sense, my writing has deteriorated recently.

Good luck to all.

.

Nothing is ludicrous if it is someones personal opinion. For OLO he believes this is the best chance to succeed - good on him and I am sure he will do just that. If you believe it is not then i also hope you succeed doing it your way.

And yeh for sure a lot of it is down to laziness. I don't think it was exactly pressurized but yes pushed to hit the contract players signed etc and just to try and get more out of a player than they gave. If you get paid to stack shelves each day and you only stack one tin of beans then your supervisor will have words and will keep doing so until you do it right. Anyways will go round in circles here but yeh basically each to their own and if you part of the team or not the aim is to crush and be a long term winner.

Also i am super happy with the team we have now so everything that has happened along the way got us to this spot so things work out in the long run!

Lets crush team

I also believe a lot of this is down to the player/stakees mindset. The pressure may not be coming from me but from themselves knowing they are not doing what they are supposed to do. I always believe this is a way bigger pressure than someone actually baring down on you. As everyone or most have a conscience and as humans when we know we are failing at something it gets us down.

Again this doesn't go for everyone and some just didn't want to do it this way but yeh just my opinion

So I was one of the players who came in and very quickly left the staking team and want to share my experience because I see both sides.

I entered the staking with completely the wrong mindset and that was what led to a quick loss, leave and I paid Jon back. I entered the staking because I didn't want to have my roll of $2.5k or so locked up online as I've just moved out and invest that $2.5k or so in a new project which is going nicely atm. I joined at the bottom of my biggest downswing in poker where I lost about $1.1k or so in the space of a month. I'm fairly happy that it was 80% variance and looking back with a clear mind it doesn't really bother me. At the time however it pissed me off big time and made me question if I wanted to play poker anymore. I then fairly rashly joined the staking group to try and get rid of money worries and play for fun for a while. Anyone who has read MGOP will know this was stupid as I hadn't worked on the mental side of my game before joining up and I was still massively tilted whenever I lost a standard hand. At the time I don't think mentally I could beat the regs at a stake lower than my normal limit and realising that hurt. I insta quit I think 2 days into my experience because I knew that I was not going to win money and I wasn't enjoying playing at all. I shipped the $100 or so I lost to Jon within 10 mins of leaving the group.

So that was on my part a stupid decision, not because I don't think staking is a bad choice, but because I entered it with a hot head, a shit mental attitude to my game and was like a bull in a china shop which I doubt Jon was happy with! However, in regards to Olo's comment, I think that staking is definitely not the way forward for a lot of people and I would 100% include myself in that list. People look at things differently and take some things as pressure where others don't. For myself also, I was not really going to gain much from the group. I have my own coach who is very good at helping me and a good friend now also. I have a few friends in poker who are playing higher stakes than all of those currently staked and I myself was playing a stake or 2 higher on my own than all of those in the group. Moreover the site was super buggy for me and wouldn't work with my HUD so it was not a hard decision to leave the group so quickly.

I think that staking is a great opportunity, but you have to be right level to enter the group you enter and go into in a good frame of mind. I guess that the reason a lot of people quit was because they were not making money, not hitting hand targets and not putting the work in. For me that kinda reflects a bit on the selection process (sorry Jon!) because the people joining are clearly losing players (probably in a similar place to me at the time) where they are looking for an easy way not too worry about money and a good community to be in. The stakers, on the other hand, would not list these ideas at the top of their priorities list (or shouldn't anyway). They would be listing commitment to learn, commitment to improve and commitment play a lot, helping others improve and building a strong team that makes money.

So in conclusion, don't join the group if you are not committed, in a bad place mentally with poker (or life) or are looking at it as an easy way out of having a roll online! Don't be a scumbag and come in as a losing player, lose more then fuck off and not pay Jon, but also don't take it as your last option! I made my entire roll out of profits on my own (with coaching and friends along the way) so its not like you can't make money without staking support.

Hope that is a fair assesment Jon and massive apologies again for coming in and running off so quick :'(

All good - don't want to go round in circles to much and each to their own. You did the right thing no doubt and well we was both unsure if this would work out but was 100% happy to give it a go with you as well we have known each other for a while now and was happy to do anything to help. Quick decision to go but i think this was kinda make or break for you at the time and i was not going to try and keep u with us etc.

We have a mix of winning and losing players and happily take on losers to help them become winners. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. But we do this for a lot more reasons than to make money (staking could never make 1% of what the company does etc) so those are the risks we are willing to take. This is a community after all and like i said losers can become winners so we do what we can to help make this happen!

Good luck with your new venture and nice to see you back on here.

havnt been on here in a long time just curious how much profit or loss is this at now an has anyone made any money for there troubles

Yes the players getting paid and on track for a great month.

Currently November Profit/Loss: +€248

Nice... keep it going this way!

Another little update. We have a 3 day period where not one of our players booked a losing day which was pretty sick to see in the daily reports!

Yesterday we lost 100 overall but that still leaves us up over €350.

Great job so good to see

It's obviously way too early to tell, but I hope this is a sign of this staking deal working its long-term magic. I'm sure that staked players improved a lot and are ready to crush some limits.

Had a couple of shaky days but a nice Sunday and we are currently up €400 on the month.

@juanoell was put up to 20nl and my gooooooooooodness he is killing it up there. 5-7 buy ins days for fun