CrazyCookie

Hey everyone,

Was looking at this hypothetical spot today and realised that with my, and probably everyone's strategy, we have very few if any flush draws if we check the flop. I typically check back some nfd when I have say AhKh on a 982 board as we will also be ahead of a lot of villains range and can then cooler him flush v flush if it comes in and we have checked. But what about on this board:

Ah8h2d

Say we open this range OTB
Attached Image

and BB calls.

What are peoples thoughts on checking back KhQh KhJh and then some hands like Kh3h-5h? The K doesn't block any of villains calling range other than nfd so its fe won't be as high as JhTh which blocks more fd combos, AJ AT TT maybe JJ sometimes.

I really don't want to check back our weaker fd as these can't really rely on turning a pair and bluff catching without having to bet river, compared to KhXh which can turn 2nd pair call OTT and check river and win enough of the time.

That being said, KhQh is going to be a pretty good hand to ebt OTF with BDSD + FD + OC to to worse than JJ.

Also I'm seeing I bet this flop a lot and ok it's a board that we have an equity advantage on with more and better Ax combos, but I feel we can be exploited if we just cbet this flop a tonne (even if it isn't likely!)

Last Post 7 years ago by

Komododragonjesus

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In terms of GTO it makes sense to check flushdraws sometimes, because if you have no flushes in your range if you check, villain can overbet any flushrunout. I think it is doesn't matter which flushdraw you check behind because villain will have weaker flushdraws if you have K5s, KQs and with the other flushdraws you have easy calls on the turn too.

BUT: on a board like this you should bet your entire range with a small size because most villains dont defend nearly enough against that sizing, thats why EV(bet) K5s > EV(check), against GTO-Villain it is mabye nearly the same EV in checking or betting but GTO is a lot more calling than average villain the higher foldingfrequency will increase the EV of betting K5s.

Yeah, I feel that the fact that we get more folds than we need to with a 50%-60% size makes the bet just too good of an option not to bet.

I'm currently working again on my own range without looking as much at villains after doing the opposite, just to avoid getting too much into the mindset of "oh wow we get so many folds here bet everything" kinda mindset. Although this strategy works very well and against weak passive regs it is the best way to play, but it also limits our game a bit.

May post some other spots like this looking at gto aprox approach and if it is actually a good spot to exploit in an unknown situation given population tendencies

Which stakes you play again Jesus?

up to NL400

(mainly NL200 Micro anos and some good tables NL400, I grind for living, thats why I take the lower variance-approach, sometimes sample-grind NL100 fastforeward)

I'm curious about this one but off the top of my head I'm not sure if it makes too much of a difference which KhXh you choose. I do think there is a big difference if you're deciding between checking back K high draws or something like J high draws and agree with you that the K high are more favourable.

With the exception of KhQh, the higher your kicker, the better the blocker effect will be. You can structure your bets that way.

On the other hand, I would say on this board Kh9h-KhQh benefit the most from keeping the pot small as you're more likely to call down a bet or two with 2nd pair Jr for example rather than turned 3rd pair 6r with Kh6h.

The real GTO answer (if you choose not to bet this like 1/3 pot with your entire range) is probably some mixed strat where you check back each of KhQh-Kh3h some small % of the time.

Komododragonjesus:
On the other hand, I would say on this board Kh9h-KhQh benefit the most from keeping the pot small as you're more likely to call down a bet or two with 2nd pair Jr for example rather than turned 3rd pair 6r with Kh6h.

This I think is very important to consider. Given this, although a GTO approach may be to check back some of the time with all hands, it may be just as beneficial and a lot easier to always check back KQs and one other KXs. I find it hard to correctly check back say 10% of multiple hands so prefer taking one or two combos and going 100% with them.

What dyou think?

Oh yeah that definitely makes it easier to pick a few exact combos since we're not machines.

I'm curious about how many combos of FD we should be checking back in a spot like this if we decide to use that strategy. In the spot you described you have 35.5 combos of flush draws. If you check back only 1-2 combos of flush draws then villain can probably still barrel super profitably on flush cards since 1-2 combos will be such a small part of an overall range and the blocker effect of a Kh (in their hand) would be HUGE.

Yeah, I'm thinking probably in the region of 8 combos along with our 2nd pair combos and weaker to combos. That way we have a range that calls with a fairly high frequency OTT and probably just about enough OTR to make a barrel less likely to be profitable.

Sounds like a good plan

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