Nasty downswing continuing. I'm on the verge of giving up poker I think. It has never sat well with my depression. Some contemplation ahead for me over the next few days to see if this is worth bothering with. Maybe just another failed enterprise to cut loose from rather than wasting good energy after bad.

Just now seems every call I make they have the nuts despite the fact I fold and fold and fold. Huge downwards blue and redline is quite an achievement. Todays big hitters were 86/63 loon calling my 3bet OOP with 33 and flopping set vs my top 2 on cordinated 2tone flop. Flopping set and vs over pair and he turned set, flop set over set and reggish looking guy 4betting 86s and rivering straight.

Its all variance and I don't think there is anything I could have done (unless I could see their cards) except in some cases maybe jamming before they hit their miracle cards but they had weak ranges (and even weaker than I thought given the stuff they had). The exception to that is the set vs overpair where he 2bet me on the flop and I smooth called. At least some of the time his over pairs would have called me off but I felt I was miles ahead and there was no draws.

The issue with variance though as a low volume rec player is you can't play through it quickly. Also its always a burn when it happens as you try a higher stake. Do I quit completely, move back down and spend the next year grinding NL10, or write off my deposit free BR and never back down on NL25?

Some folds I then made as my head went down. Monsters everywhere even under the bed. Any thoughts?

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: $28.50 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
SB: $25.10 (VPIP: 29.33, PFR: 26.67, 3Bet Preflop: 2.94, Hands: 79)
BB: $25.00 (VPIP: 35.71, PFR: 28.57, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 45)
Hero (UTG): $25.50
MP: $31.27 (VPIP: 25.93, PFR: 20.99, 3Bet Preflop: 13.33, Hands: 81)
CO: $26.38 (VPIP: 28.21, PFR: 25.64, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 41)

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has Ac Ad
Hero raises to $0.85, MP calls $0.85, fold, fold, fold, BB calls $0.60

Flop : ($2.65, 3 players) 4d Jh 3s
BB bets $1.89, Hero raises to $5.00, MP raises to $30.42 and is all-in, fold, fold

MP wins $13.89


PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

Hero (BB): $27.45
UTG: $25.00 (VPIP: 20.22, PFR: 16.85, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 91)
MP: $30.27 (VPIP: 55.56, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 50.00, Hands: 10)
CO: $34.61 (VPIP: 36.84, PFR: 23.68, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 41)
BTN: $25.00 (VPIP: 21.37, PFR: 16.79, 3Bet Preflop: 5.77, Hands: 133)
SB: $50.54 (VPIP: 28.72, PFR: 23.40, 3Bet Preflop: 8.11, Hands: 99)

SB posts SB $0.10, Hero posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has Kd Kc
UTG raises to $0.85, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $2.65, UTG calls $1.80

Flop : ($5.40, 2 players) Tc Qh 6c
Hero bets $2.60, UTG raises to $5.20, Hero calls $2.60

Turn : ($15.80, 2 players) 8h
Hero checks, UTG bets $8.50, fold

UTG wins $15.09


PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

MP: $26.67 (VPIP: 36.59, PFR: 29.27, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 42)
CO: $27.38 (VPIP: 11.43, PFR: 8.57, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 36)
BTN: $28.59 (VPIP: 13.89, PFR: 13.89, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
SB: $25.10 (VPIP: 27.78, PFR: 19.44, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
Hero (BB): $20.81
UTG: $23.33 (VPIP: 27.78, PFR: 2.78, 3Bet Preflop: 5.26, Hands: 36)

SB posts SB $0.10, Hero posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has Ah Qs
UTG calls $0.25, fold, fold, BTN raises to $1.00, fold, Hero calls $0.75, UTG calls $0.75

Flop : ($3.10, 3 players) 6c 5s Ac
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.48, BTN calls $1.48, Hero calls $1.48

Turn : ($7.54, 3 players) 7d
Hero checks, UTG bets $3.60, fold, Hero calls $3.60

River : ($14.74, 2 players) 4c
Hero checks, UTG bets $17.25 and is all-in, fold

UTG wins $14.08

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

UTG: $25.60 (VPIP: 44.44, PFR: 41.67, 3Bet Preflop: 15.38, Hands: 36)
CO: $26.41 (VPIP: 32.54, PFR: 25.40, 3Bet Preflop: 12.26, Hands: 256)
Hero (BTN): $18.21
SB: $38.30 (VPIP: 26.06, PFR: 19.39, 3Bet Preflop: 11.48, Hands: 168)
BB: $50.04 (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has Td Kd
fold, CO raises to $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, fold, fold

Flop : ($1.85, 2 players) 2s Kh Qc
CO bets $1.32, Hero calls $1.32

Turn : ($4.49, 2 players) 3c
CO bets $3.21, Hero calls $3.21

River : ($10.91, 2 players) 6s
CO bets $21.13 and is all-in, fold

CO wins $10.42

Still thinking about what to do. BR is currently $475 plus about another $150 in reserve as Stars had a deposit limit on it (don't remember setting it up but is probably no bad thing).

This is the worst downswing I've ever had now. I had a sharp one a while back but this is new territory. Normally a downswing for me is being under EV and so getting gunshy and tilting away all my money. This is new. Most of my stats are not very different. I'm 3betting less which is odd as I wasn't setting out to. Especially BTN 3bet which is at 4%! I've never been that low even as a nit in my older days.

I saw John suggesting a pros and cons on another journey but for me its really short.

Pro's

I do love the game, its challenge and the mental test.

Con's

I am so far failing the mental test very badly. This is inline with my general life and is not pokers fault.

Money is irrelevant which should make for less mental pressure but not being a loser is very very relevant. Its that I've never been able to get past and why the attraction of trying to beat it in this limited little sphere is so attractive. I don't know. I'll give it a while longer and see if an answer appears.

Graph for the sheer joy of it.

Looked like my May graph. You can pull yourself out of it. Drop stakes, play small ball for a bit. Wait for things to turn, get a little confidence back in your game and then start building again.

Played a bit tonight and played well (or at least B or C game I suppose but better than I have been). Still running horrible though so break even on EV turned into 3 more BI down. BR is $450. Not going any lower than NL10 though. If I can't beat that then I'm done anyway.

It would appear that I can't. My ranging is buggered. You know that point where you are discounting FD's from a villains range until the flish comes in and then suddenly you persuade yourself his range is only flushes and check fold. Thats how I feel now. Not sure what to do though but play through it and trust my standard lines. Second guessing is killing me.

Despite all of this the simple fact is I'm beating the game for 4bb/100 over 80K hands. Just sucks right now.

If money isn't an issue for you why are you looking at your bankroll anyway? I honestly think that you have to try and get out of the defeatist attitude and refocus. Look at the big pots you have lost in the last 5k hands and see if they are coolers or bad plays. post your stats and begin thinking more. I don't see you much in the strat section (which may just be me not being observant) but for someone playing 10nl your best improvement will come through forums and videos. Are you posting strategy posts and watching vids? If not then start with that.

I'm very aware you have a history of depression so don't want to be insensitive but at the same time I don't want to just post "It will all eb fine keep going" because that isn't going to give any direction or help :')

I look at my BR when I'm losing to make sure I don't blow past my stoploss. This is a dangerous cycle actually as I re-inforce to myself how much I suck when I'm losing, which is constantly right now. Even if I'm winning, if I'm running hot I rationalise that as losing. I don't use the strategy bit here as no-one is on it so if I post regularly it will just be my threads. 2+2 I used a lot but the constant jibes (EAD, LDO, OFC) made me spin downwards when I was in a depressive phase. Videos I love to watch. Especially Weasels ones and now the Bridging the Gap ones. I used to love the review vids from Jon but after the bad experience of my one I can't watch them anymore.

This thread has gone all whiny and pathetic again hasn't it. Its a battle for me.

[] Post Hands after session or before starting next one.
[] Redefine ranges to make sure haven't slipped.
[] Work on 3bet pots and defending blinds.
[] Stop bloody whining.

There are plenty of people in the strat forum! It's very rarely negative and we can help plug some major leaks. Post your stats in the stats thread and some hands in the main bit.

Glad you're enjoying the bridging the gap stuff! I'm the one being coached I'd say try and watch some of imfromsweeden stuff and if you can get one month at dc and watch some of the vids there. Best ones for you may be the getting serious about poker series but a lot of them are good also you can download vids so maybe try and watch snipers of series and if you like download and you don't have to then pay each month.

I found when i have bern struggling in the past I have either been too pressured to do well or not studying. Recently I felt I was playing average and running hot and felt I needed to study more. I now study just enough to be happy without pressurising myself and play the right ammount to enjoy it. Try and find the right mix for you

What is your stopless btw? With 45 buy ins at 10nl I wouldn't worry too much about having a strict stoploss. Base it on how you are playing. Best piece if advise I've had is this: ask yourself when you feel a bit bad "is losing a buy in here going to hurt me?" If yes then quit, if no then play on. This is good for when you are mentally struggling or up 5 bi and just lost 2 and are scared ull lose another and end up playing bad to avoid that. Ofc also the same if you are down 3 bi and have had enough.

Hope that helps

For me it all depends on how I lose it. If I get it in 2:1 favourite or something and lose, no big deal or clear cooler like 66 vs JJ on J62 two tone. If I fold and fold and fold or stack off as a big dog then it kills me regardless of how I'm playing or even how much. Hurts just as much at NL5 as NL25. Maybe even more so as I should be able to beat NL5 (super entitlement tilt). The worst part of that is if the play was correct, i.e. good fold or run into the only combo that beats me it still sends me into a tailspin.

Stoploss is currently 3BI. I never had one before but the slide has been so sharp I didn't know what else to do. I'm down $350 EV in 8k hands so its pretty steep. Previous downswing was similar depth but took much longer than this. I'll put my stats up actually in the stats bit see if I'm missing the wood for the trees.

It sounds as if you're running bad but ibwouksnt have a 3bi stop loss. You lose one buy in and you will installed tilt knowing ur 33% to quoting and maybe more if you are down 50bb already. 5bi stop loss is IMO more useful as it helps you to mentally not worry about losing. If after 3bi you feel you don't want to lose anymore then you can get up no problem but if you are playing well and ran kk into AA 3 times then why waste the time you are playing well?

I'll give it a go. Going to to have a short session tonight. Thanks for the push on this. I watched a couple of good videos today and read a couple of articles so looking forward to trying to bring some rungood to the tables. Any input on the stats is also appreciated. The last time I did this was 6 months ago when after your input I really upped my preflop aggression. I think some of it has slipped back again into old passive habits, and if you are being passive you need some cards as no way you are getting anyone to fold better ever!

Refocus on learning and development has been going well. Results not always so much but enjoyment of losing and standard of play overall has improved. Made some solid calls and reads which is the most fun bit. I'd forgotten the simple joy of calling bullshit on a weird line. So much better than winning by getting AA aipf or set over setting some guy. I'm going to be posting less in here as I tend to whinge here too much and will only post the good positive stuff. Instead I'm spending my time in strategy bit of forum again and doing off the table work on those hands. Today though I hit super heat!

BR is on the way back up again now. Got my BB/100 back to 5bb/100 overall over 85k. Only up $300 though as NL10 is +15bb/100 reg tables (35K hands) and 2bb/100 on Zoom (35K hands) but NL25 is down -8.5bb/100 (15K hands). Boooo NL25. GFY, GFO, EAD etc etc. Last 5k hands back at old NL10 have been +20bb/100 EV after todays 50bb/100 session!

BR is $540 on Stars plus $160 held back from last withdrawal so $700 ish. Still down $250ish from my peak but maybe not a million miles away from another shot at NL25.

In other news I have found the a new table selection method on Stars. Stop looking for good tables in the lobby where 10 regs are waiting to try and stack the one awful whale ruining the table stats. Just quick seat, run an orbit to see whats what and leave if needed. Rinse and repeat. Much quicker and less hassle and the rec players are doing the same. Had some great tables. Bit more hassle maybe but seems to be better for me on limited sample. It might just be because I believe I can beat NL10 though and after my stint at NL25 so many more of the 'regs' look fishy to me.

Sounds good man! One small thing that stood out was putting your winrate up for a session. This is going to continue your results orientated mindset. I'd try to not look at your graph straight after or during sessions. Leave it to the next day where you will be emotionally more stable. I'm trying it now and helps me mentally while playing as I play worse when I see in up or down a few buy ins.

Keep going man!

Yeah I'm trying not to. Had a little improvement in the last few days. Good little winning sessions and a couple where I won EV but lost $ which I also enjoy. I am playing really well, being aggressive and playing with a solid plan. I've also made a few creative plays which I've enjoyed. Mixed results on them but the fun was in the planning and execution of them. Overall loving the game just now.

Just reviewing yesterdays session though and while I enjoyed it, and am happy with most all of my plays it was my biggest ever losing session. It was a laser line down. Stats were normal, I wasn't being crazy. I just WSD 9%! My WWSF was 19%! Absolutely mental. They just always had the nuts!

I also got 3bet/4bet loads. Not by aggro players but by all the nits. Not being exploited I don't think just more crushingness. I got 3bet nearly 25% of my opens.

Overall I lost at 87bb/100. Chuffed though with my attitude to it.

attitude to it is so much more important than people give it credit! Keep your love for the game burning man

Thanks Cookie. I'll do my best. I'm in for a session today. Going to have some lunch and watch and note the overbet video from Imfromsweden then go for it. Twice now your intervention has made a difference. Last downswing I got super passive and a stats input from you helped me out of that. This time returning me to learning and away from 'grinding' to help me find what I like about the game. You might be directional and not everyone likes that but it works for me. You can go to far with it (like most people on 2+2) but for what its worth I think you've helped me a lot.

Anyway, no homo. I'm off to continue to smash up NL10 and build for another NL25 shot.

Haha no homo! Cookie giving out the magic advice! I like it!

Enjoy your lunch and good luck with your grind today!

Ended up going to the pub with friends. You know when you have a plan for the day and then you get a call about going out and to not go would be making up excuses. I was really pissed off as I had my mind set ready. What a tool I was being. Went and sat in the sun and chatted about shit with my 2 best mates with not a care in the world. Way better idea. The grind is still here now I'm back and I've had a nice afternoon with people I like.

Smashing up this weekend so far! Now on to poker to play like a boss before my wife and kids get home. Then I'll do the husband and father thing for a bit. Life rungood engaged.

Sounds like a perfect day out mate and imo if you ever have a choice of the 2 always go for the beer just as long as it doesnt happen everyday of course!

Haha, just your average dream maker Glad to hear you're back on track man! Keep grinding loving the game and stop and smell the roses of life along the way