When i first started using Snowie i would play as i would in real life. But once you start using the program, you find your game begins to resemble Snowies and that becomes your real life game. Of course, i have never gotten to that extra terrestrial level but its not my intention to really. There are spots in real games i overbluff, because there still profitable to do so. And there are spots i will consciously decide to underbluff because i never get enough folds. You also have your more subtle deviations you make in regards to exploiting particular weaknesses in others games.

Yeah I've noticed I've been over bet bluffing a bit more but I think including that in real life is going to be really profitable also

I think that in terms to the error rate, reach et isn't going to be thatttttt helpful. Like sure olif we are playing someone who is trying to play gto approximate it will be but in reality so few people are religiously doing so and even less are actually good at it is probably better to be able to play more in the 5-8 error rate where our errors are more exploitative plays that are capatilising on villains leaks.

What have you got your blunder rate set to BTW?

Yeah, there are are some good spots to overbet and it definitely a part of my game. One of my favorites is leading turns for 2x pot when the board pairs the 2nd or 3rd highest card on flop. For example, Q,7,5r,7. I will do this with a polarized range here.

And i have never changed my blunder rate from the default 2bbs in Snowie. No particular reason.

I reduced mine considerably to about 0.2 I think, but not sure why really. I think having it at 2 is probably better will look into it and see if others have changed it.

Interesting with the 2x lead ott there. Guessing that is because people stop bluffing as much and check back tp a lot here so we can bet our boats and bluffs then shove otr as villain checks a lot otf with 2/3rd pair so can't have many trips, but will call some big turn bets with op/TP but not a river shove. Effectively getting 3 streets (in sizing terms)/with bluffs and value hands? Would you take your best blockers to to to use as a bluff or more likely a hand that doesn't block tp to get max value? Also guessing you won't always bluff shove (or bet big) otr?

Your thinking is very much correct. For bluffs, i prefer to use blockers over hands which block top pair but it does depend on the texture a bit. For example on the Qh,7s,5c,7d board my bluffs would be hands like K,5 A,5,9,6,8,6,KJ, just a really polarized range in general. The A,5 i like best because not only do we block bottom set, but also top pair top kicker. Its normally a hand i will go all the way with. For value its pretty self explanatory, 55s,Q,7,A7,K,7, however, i decide to check my combo of Quads for some reason since its so hard to get.

And you are correct, i wont be following through on all my bluffs on the turn and shoving the river. Obviously it depends on what that card is, and what part of my range i have. Also, doing so is most often suicidal as most players will become freaked out when you make such a play and will play extremely honestly once you are called.

However, this strategy does not work as well against players who Cbet to much and use more depolarized ranges on the flop. However, this is not much of a problem as we can exploit these players with aggressive flop check/raising.

Hello guys, my name is Nikos (Poker Engineer from similar 2+2 thread)

Nick as you know I am trained vs Snowie too, and I can admit that your challenge is realy interesting as you re one of the very few players who take this for serious (even there are no money at stake).

From my experience vs Snowie I would say that it isn't GTO for sure, but it is a realy good approach. Snowie has specific leaks which are a result of it's training. We talked about that on skype a bit, but I would be happy to share my opinion with rest of the guys here too.

So Snowie is trained be playing trillion hands vs itself and actually memorize the most +EV move from experience because it played similar spots lot of times. So what are the weaknesses ? Obv all the spots that Snowie isn't used to face a lot like :

- Multi way pots
This kind of spots are really tough to solve and ever more tough to occur in exactly similar way. So this is actually why Snowie prefers a really tight-passive approach on these spots

- Weird bet sizes
Ok we know that Snowie is trained and use only 3 bet sizes. Of course it will give us results for other bet sizes, but the core og it's training came from these 3 sizes. This is absolutely normal because the real NLH game is really hard to solve. So in reality Snowie is something between limit and no limit player. It will play really balanced for these bet sizes, but if we use bet sizes like 0.2x or 4x pot then ,as a result of it's training, it will have to face spots not so familiar to it.

- Range assumption errors (like river bluffing ranges, x/r bluffing ranges, not enough river thin value betting etc)
This concept isn't actually Snowie's leak, but it is general's field leak. For example we know that very few players (at least at midstakes and below) will use well balanced river bluffing ranges or x/r bluffing ranges etc. But Snowie assumptions always are based that we are playing vs a very good and balanced opponent. This is why it used to call a bit wider range on some river spots. Of course this is not the only situation where Snowie's assumptions are far away from reality

So I believe that it could be interesting if you was trying to exploit these kind of spots in your challenge and tell us your opinion after few thousand hands.
(Sorry for big text:) )

Cheers @twoblackAA I may well do some stuff around exploiting snowie! I agree it appears not to play perfect but is tough and puts us in very odd spots that really make me think! I think this can be one of it's best assets as we can then [ut players in those situations knowing they will be struggling, and if we know our range is constructed in a way that can't be exploited we are laughing all the way to the bank!

Had a couple of brutal sessions v Snowie where he just hit a lot and I didn't, I also made some fairly big mistakes I though but most of them didn't turn up in reviews! Made a video on my studies as I think ti will add some value to this thread and hopefully start some chat around it! That should be coming soon @Jon-PokerVIP is on that

This will be another one of Nicks goals he never completes. Its like he has a new idea everyday but never pursues it fully. Forex, Horse racing, Sports betting, Golf, jesus christ. Next he will be telling us he is going attempt to reinvent the wheel.

In my opinion playing against snowie is a really fast way to improve your preflop leaks. I have been thinking about playing against it 3-handed to get more post flop action, because the big mistakes are made there.

Lol OK, soooooo forex I'm actively studying, horse racing I have money invested in as I do sports betting. Golf I stopped playing after about 5 years because I wasn't enjoying it anymore and went to the states for the summer and wanted to play cricket more and they conflict massively.

Let's instead look at your amazing goal achievement as you loveeeee pointing out others flaws.

Your goal was to be playing what 400nl by the end of last year? Or was it 2014? Have you done that? no. Two years DEVOTED to poker as your source of income, litrally your one profession and you haven't moved up one stake level... Two years!! In my worst two year of golf improvement wise I went from about a 15 handicap to an 8 handicap which isn't amazing but progress... This while I wasin my final two years of school, working part time 4 evenings a week and also playing cricket every other weekend.

Pokerwise sure I haven't moved past 50nl in 2 years but have played probably 25-30% of the hands you have, work full time and play and coach cricket in the summer. If I was playing full time and at your level I would be ashamed not to have moved up and for sure wouldn't be pointing out other people's failings.

You are a nasty person who thinks they are superior to everyone else, that they have the dream life or whatever. I honestly couldn't care less what you think of me or my goals or my challenegs. @Jon-PokerVIP, please can you block this prick from posting on this journey anymore. I'm sick of him and his comments and don't want his shitty, nasty attitude posting on this thread.

I think the opposite! Snowie opens to 2x so will suggest you make a lot of calls from the blinds v EP/MP/CO with trashy hands because of the odds you are getting. If you use that strategy in real games you will be crushed simply because you will OOP with a huge equity disadvantage.

Whatever you want to believe mate honestly it just makes me "Yawn" Your mother obviously taught you well as a child Nick with all your childish "Perceived" insults. By the way, i don't think i have the dream quintessential life though, i don't think such a phenomenon exists my friend and even if it did, i am yet to discover it.

There is also a comment made in regards to me not making it to 500nl Zoom. Well, i have never once had private coaching or spent anywhere near the amount of money you have on Poker to improve yet you still only play at 50nl, and can only do so on the softest sites.. It saids a lot about your give up when it gets to hard mentality which proves my initial point which pertained you as a quiter. . While myself who has never had private coaching and have made all my progress in poker with little help from other people, unlike yourself. You just want short cuts in poker and life as a whole, anything where you think you can make a quick buck you will pursue without any hesitation. They say greed is the root all "Evil" you my friend are testament to this.

Yeh you know the drill

@trollord59 please do not make any more comments in this thread. Any further posts to each other in here will be deleted.

Cheers

Thanks Jbone

This week I'm planning to do a little more work with flopzilla as playing Snowie now, although still hugely beneficial, is starting to be a little less valuable for me. I'm playing my range how I want to in a lot of spots so now I am going to look at the 12 flop textures and begin to train my brain to also take into consideration our equity range v range so that not only am I able to balance my range but also choose to exploitatively play more passively on weaker boards for my range and more aggressively on boards bad for villain. It isn't my most favourite way to study but hopefully like with my work with Snowie the first few hours will be tough and then my brain begins to spot the boards I am going to be doing well/bad on quicker in my snowie sessions.

Little bit of a side note: Played some 10nl on PKR to check out the software changes made since they moved to MPN and see how my Snowie study feels at the tables. It feels GREAT! So many spots which I would struggle over before I just know what to do and a lot of spots where I was very comfortable on certain lines as I know I had other hands in my range when doing them. Completely different feel at the tables, farr less potential tilt inducing spots, less mental power needed to work out best moves AND probably best of all no thoughts on battling with regs given I know my preflop ranges are balanced well enough that they can't really do much to exploit me and if they are then it's going to be minimal and they will over play hands in enough spots we make all that EV back and some anyway

You said earlier that your error rate is unfair and lower than it "should" be. Does anybody know if there is any correlation with the error rate and the stakes people play?

For me this is an important question, because if there is no such correlation then the error rate is totally meaningless. The feedback snowie gives is based on that, so if that is meaningless so is most of the feedback you get from it.

I found this thread you could be interested : http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/174/poker-goals-challenges/pokersnowie-student-road-nl1000-ipoker-1502500/index11.html

I think this guys error rate is something like 4-5 and he is playing NL200. I have seen some graphs from micro stakers and their error rate is usually something like 8-11. so maybe, just maybe there actually is the correlation and the error rate predicts your success at certain stakes. I need to take closer look on this before putting any weight on the error rate.

Error rate is just your errors v Snowie so it is hard to gauge stakes/winners. Eg someone playing 10nl/25nl might have a lower error rate than someone playing fairly exploitatively at 200nl and be winning less bb/100.

this is somewhat interesting: https://www.pokersnowie.com/blog/2014/02/21/how-pokersnowie-doing-after-33-millions-hands-played

I think that my error rate is slightly high (maybe 0.5-0.75 high) because I am folding mroe hands preflop in BB as I'm playing as if I am in real life so folding to EP w/64s is standard but Snowie may well say that v 2x it is a call.

The error rate I don't think is meaningless at all though. there are some odd things it throws up as blunders and often I have a pretty good reason for doing something it classifies as a blunder and in real life it wouldn't be bad and fits in my range in a certain way that makes it +EV or at worse balanced to make it hard for villain to make a profit.

If it picks up a blunder however it will often always be close at best unless you are sure on your range in a certain spot and how you play it. If you are just sporadically playing and a hand pops up as a blunder check it out and see what range snowie does what with in that spot, not to copy but just to see why it is a blunder. If you think in game it would be +EV ignore it, if you think it is actually an exploitable/losing play it is probably something to look at.

One thing you can do is see where most of your errors come and from that you might want to look at your balance on that street and if you are over or under playing some hadn strengths

HAHA, well lets ask the man himself how he is getting on....

@twoblackAA how ya doing?

LOL