Jon-PokerVIP

I was speaking to someone yesterday whos volume blew me away. He plays over 100k hands a month, is a full time student and also works. He does play Zoom so I know thats irrelevant here as stake sites play on BV, but the volume he plays has def got me intrigued, he played 1200 hands in his lunch hour!! So if Jon or anyone else could point me in the direction of some good zoom/fastfold poker videos I would appreciate that!

Been following this thread for ages, was one of the stakees from the first time around (back when it was 40k hands / month)!

Re Fat-Sunny above, that is pretty sweet volume! But like you say, its zoom. He is playing ~80hrs a month, which dont get me wrong is nice volume, but if you are a staked player, who plays say 4 tables, that 80 hours will still not get you to the 30k hands. And thats not even including adding time for reviewing hands / posting on forums / reading etc.

I'm guessing one of the issues is that people apply without fully realising how their hands / hour calculates to hitting the monthly target, or realising that they wont be able to play 2-3 hours every. single. day. The only way I could see to getting round this is to either only stake players capable of either putting in insane volume / who are comfortable playing more tables (which may not be optimal when you are trying to improve at NL10/20, but thats a whole nother argument!), or adjust volume targets depending on how many tables someone plays. Altho obv this should be done before joining - the people who joined saying they would hit the 30k have no excuse lol.

Otherwise, it just gets to the point where someone is behind the hand rate by 5k midway through the month. They realise they will never make that up play 2-4 tables, so they either lose motivation, or yolo it out, playing more tables / hours than they are comfortable with ,and spew away money.

Just my $0.02, may be completely wrong

Good point maybe a part time staking deal 20k hands - 60/40 split VIPs favour or 50/50 and VIP keep rake back too, just suggestions that Jon has already thought of probably.

It does always appear to be a volume issue, even with winning players the past few months. Maybe a tiered system would motivate the players more?
IE
20-25k hands = 75/25 split.
26-30k hands = 65/35 split.
Above 30k = 50/50 split.

So then a player who is say 6-7k hands behind maybe more motivated to try and hit it to double his potential earnings, rather than give it up as a "lost cause" for the month. Although from everything I've read and heard they shouldn't need more motivation!

You know volume isn't just the issue and i think a lot of people are just looking at that. If a player is crushing but only hitting 22k hands a month or something i am fine with that. If a player is obviously posting tons of hands, getting involved, asking questions, learning and hits 25k hands and loses small i am fine with that.

i think the bunch we have right now will be a nice balance of that. What i just want people to do is put 100% into it and i don't mean to sack off their lives or whatever i just mean to give everything they can and go hard. Basically just crush something.

Lets go!

Jon-PokerVIP: Some super interesting posts there and it is nice to see a staked player come in and really give a rundown on the situation so thanks for that

@Hitchhiking . I ofc understand where everyone is coming from both the players off pace & not completing the contract and also the members here saying to do more. You are both right. The problem is as a team when i post up some stats and not one person is on pace it looks bad for us and i can understand that.....it actually looks the worst for me as it says maybe a lot about my management of the operation. So when members say cmon lads play more, work harder and at least be on pace i can understand it.....1 person should be in the green zone imo at least.

As for people having holidays and commitments etc like

@Hitchhiking says i am very fine with compromising and making plans for this. It really is no problem at all as long as it;s not just someone taking a free pass. I keep being fine with it and doing what i can the problem is it is like taking a kicking when said person then fails again or doesn't come back or just decides its time to not bother after losing loads of my money and taking up more of my time. It sucks as you start to treat all situations the same or just expecting the next person to fail as well. You guys have seen the names which have gone from the list and also now no longer post on the forum. So these guys i spoke to on a personal level, considered a friend and put a lot of time and money into them....they then decide to not bother or just vanish and then throw it back in my face even more by completely leaving the community. I recently let someone go after they got into 550 euros of make up playing 10/20nl due to them not speaking to me for 10 days...i left them a message saying the reasons and i never got one back.....i then see said person on twitch talking to some streamer and when i say "thanks for getting in touch" all i get back is "you made it quite clear in the message i was dropped".......now is it just me or is this the most crazy thing you have ever heard? Anyways i go off topic again just what i am trying to say is i want everyone to achieve and i give everyone so much rope but sometimes it does feel like when no one is crushing or even achieving it demoralizes me. You know €5000 of mine and Jamie's money plus probably twice that amount in our time running it kinda ain't feeling great. So sometimes if i sound negative on here it is because of things like this which i truly apologize for.

Anyways again i keep going back to the negatives. What i want is everyone to be happy playing for us, i want you to have the same feeling you did the day we said YES and you signed the contract. I always feel like people get mad or something or don't feel like we give them enough but i keep saying just ask me for what you want and i'll make it happen. It really is that simple. So if there are any staked players lurking reading this and want something just hit me up on Skype and i'll do my best.

This

@mingthemerciless93 competition seems to have powered up a few people for sure which is soooooo sick to see and i knew it would help motivate. I am super pumped to see the results of this and then ofc the video that they make together. It really is a sick prize and Ming is the man at helping people so it was a no brainer for a player to just crush hard for 10 days.

Going forward the staking will continue and we will not stop or give up. We are going to run 2-3 competitions per month now for the staked players and also open some of them up for all members across the forum. This will ensure there is motivation and more coaching for the team. It won't be month long either so don't worry guys there will be some rest breaks for you but hard work will be required when push comes to shove.

The main thing i want to say to end this is the real reason i push and moan and bitch is because i want players to hit their potential and i really feel there is more chance doing that with us than on their own. This is due to all the learning resources available, a daily bankroll and lets face it no one will move players up faster than we do. I am fed up of people throwing their talent away so rather than see it as not having enough time or just wanting to do anything else why not just do an extra 30 minutes per day? We all have that right? Life is a game of inches afterall

BTW i have to say i love our current bunch and i know many of you will achieve your goals and make a lot of money from poker or just learn a lot with us. One thing i will say is just stay at it, do that extra little bit, communicate with me more and be ready for October. I think you are all going to find the motivation you need so tuned for that.

Lets go team!

I am one of the guys who got in the hole while staking, vanished, was dropped and now doesn't post anymore! Mainly because I feel I can't! And obviously the above is not the way I see it!

Put simply I had taken on a new stressful job and relocated just before joining the staking but thought like everybody else that 2.5 hours per day was easily doable! I very quickly realised that 2.5 hrs per day was nowhere near enough to hit the allotted hands! I upped my tables to 6 instead of 4 but then had a couple of bad beats and stop lossed a few days! Before I knew it I was 200e down and behind pace! Pushed the volume more and continued losing! Couldn't take a few days off to study as would fall further behind pace! Mentioned to Jon but it obviously just looked like I was making excuses and being lazy! I really wasn't! Got really down abt it so switched my computer off and went back to Newcastle for a long weekend! When I went back to computer I had a message to say I had been dropped which I didn't reply to as I felt bummed out, disappointed, relieved as I felt so guilty abt losing other people's money!

I have never played poker since! Withdrew all my bankrolls and that was 4 or so months ago! Just wanted to show people that it is not always as cut and dried as people think!

@Jef147 Good to hear from you. I actually have the events slightly different to what you said about a weekend away. From what i can see you didn't play for 8 days and i believe never replied to my messages or signed into Skype to acknowledge any of this? Also your overall loss was over 500 euros i believe? This could be wrong but i am pretty sure of this and it's the number i have in my head. I also sent you a pretty pissed off email saying i didn't expect this from you and hoped you would do the right thing.

BTW when i drop people in these circumstances i feel like i have no choice. Like if the player has vanished it is so they don't have to pay the make up or so i drop them which get's the same result. I just wish people would communicate more. Recently the last couple who went have said they are sorry for fucking up and they are going to try and pay me back some of the money. I even said to them i didn't want it all but if they wanted to play like half of it back i would not say no. I am not out to chase up all these 200-500 losses but it does mean a lot when people try and give something back.

Anyways i guess this is where people are saying i am to soft. Maybe i should have just blasted your face and name across every forum and made a domain and website stating all of these facts (standard drill for all other backers) but it's just not how i like to handle things and maybe i have been taught a harsh lesson because of this...5+ others have done the same.

Anyways i didn't write the above to get into a who is right/who is wrong slagging match btw and i am totally over what you did (would make my day tho if i one day received some money from you) BUT i will say the above blasting and domain names etc will happen for any future stakees who do similar. This is to protect anyone else down the line who thinks about backing you or just doing any transactions with you.

BTW

@Jef147 really sorry it was due to this staking experience you lost your love for the game. My intentions was to do the opposite and to anyone else out there who thought this was to much to handle and put you in a bad place and made you do bad things i am again incredibly sorry. I urge anyone who plays for us right now if they ever feel this way to just speak to me...all it takes is a little nudge and a chat. It is much better to be stuck 200 euros and do the right thing than to just keep losing and do the wrong thing. Anyways buddy like i say it is great to see you are still alive and hope the new job is still going strong and you and your Mrs are still rockin it.

So I got sacked the other day and wanted to just say a few things... Mainly thanks for the opportunity... it is a great opportunity for those who want to do it and I thoroughly recommend it to anyone.

I thought that when I started it would be the best thing ever and I was extremely keen having only dabbled in cash before in phases and never really grinded loads of hands consistently for weeks and weeks before. but I decided to give it a shot.

I started off well and was a pretty good grinder then life happened. My priorities changed and Jon was more than accommodating for that and I took a while off until everything blew over which again I thank him for.

When I got back I just basically lost the thrill and couldnt face hours of grinding.... guess I was still in holiday mode. I guess when I was away my mind made up that I preferred not sitting playing hours of poker and I prefer the thrill of tournament play and the odd frolic here and there. Which to be honest surprised me.

I am going to be paying back the amount I lost since returning because my head and heart was not in it and Jon and team should not take that hit.

I would say that there is light and day between how I entered the staking team and how I left in that I am a faaaar better player than I was when I begun. It has also made me realise I couldnt grind away like a lot of folk do and I applaud those who do. It isnt the time issue it is just there is things I would rather be doing, I managed to fulfill the contract and found it very easy to when my head was in the game, I posted loads and commented loads on here at that time.

Thank you to pokervip and Jon and Jamie it was a pleasure but I am gonna stick to forum posting and carry on the learning and enjoyment of seeing other poker stories. You do have some really keen players in the team and I am sure it won't be too long in the future that it will become really successful

It seems there are a few take aways for all sides here:

* It seems like a sweet deal, and for the most part it is. You are being given access to a BR and coaching to help improve your game. BUT future stakees take note. It is a major time commitment. Perhaps moreso than most give credit for when they jump in. Take a serious analysis of whether you can actually meet the contract. I have family, work, sport and other commitments and it is the major reason I haven't asked Jon to join. I don't see myself getting the volume. Some months I do - but it isn't easy and isn't a given. DO NOT SIGN UP without serious consideration of the time needed to fulfil all the commitments. Not just playing but posting, studying etc.

* If you are staked but are struggling, be up front with your issues and communicate regularly. From the outside it appears Jon really wants everyone to succeed and also tries to understand life circumstances. Give your best effort to meet all aspects of the agreement but be visible and honest in your dealings with Jon about any and all issues.

* Those of us spectating from he sidelines, let's try and support the guys. Get to their blogs, respond to their HHs posts and support them in here. We all love the game and talking about it, that's why we're here. I understand and sympathise with those guys lamenting how hard it is to meet the contracts because I have all the issues that they have that makes it a struggle. However, I realised this and didn't sign a contract. These guys maybe didn't realise how hard it would be but I think the posts just ragging on them about how easy it is to hit 30K are way off the mark. It ain't easy. Flip side is they agreed to it so they gotta bust their arse and try to fulfil but as long as they're giving their best effort, let's stick fat in the corner and enjoy the ride, hopefully watching their poker careers progress.

This is a great community - perhaps time for all the back and forths to stop and for us to start getting this train rolling with some momentum.

MinerBoy23: It seems there are a few take aways for all sides here:

* It seems like a sweet deal, and for the most part it is. You are being given access to a BR and coaching to help improve your game. BUT future stakees take note. It is a major time commitment. Perhaps moreso than most give credit for when they jump in. Take a serious analysis of whether you can actually meet the contract. I have family, work, sport and other commitments and it is the major reason I haven't asked Jon to join. I don't see myself getting the volume. Some months I do - but it isn't easy and isn't a given. DO NOT SIGN UP without serious consideration of the time needed to fulfil all the commitments. Not just playing but posting, studying etc.

* If you are staked but are struggling, be up front with your issues and communicate regularly. From the outside it appears Jon really wants everyone to succeed and also tries to understand life circumstances. Give your best effort to meet all aspects of the agreement but be visible and honest in your dealings with Jon about any and all issues.

* Those of us spectating from he sidelines, let's try and support the guys. Get to their blogs, respond to their HHs posts and support them in here. We all love the game and talking about it, that's why we're here. I understand and sympathise with those guys lamenting how hard it is to meet the contracts because I have all the issues that they have that makes it a struggle. However, I realised this and didn't sign a contract. These guys maybe didn't realise how hard it would be but I think the posts just ragging on them about how easy it is to hit 30K are way off the mark. It ain't easy. Flip side is they agreed to it so they gotta bust their arse and try to fulfil but as long as they're giving their best effort, let's stick fat in the corner and enjoy the ride, hopefully watching their poker careers progress.

This is a great community - perhaps time for all the back and forths to stop and for us to start getting this train rolling with some momentum.

I'm raising a glass to this one, literally. Onwards and upwards to all PokerVIP players, staked or otherwise.

@perthhibee Really nice words mate and totally understand the holiday mode mentality. You know if i was launching spaceships and getting married i may not have wanted to come back either. I did even ask you a few times if you was sure you wanted to come back so soon! Been a complete pleasure tho and like most will see this week in your video review you are seriously heading in the right direction.

@MinerBoy23 Incredible words and summed up really well. Point 3 i love and that's what i would love to see. We never know what is going on behind closed doors so we cannot judge BUT i cannot mind read either so it's a game of give and take and just being a man and being honest. Let's really give this a huge push!

BTW we are currently losing 700 euros on the tables this month....1 week to go let's turn this around!!!

Good posts above, nice words and the best thing to do is move forwards Bossman Jon is more than fair and players who want staking should have to read this thread before they sign on the dotted line and see that its not an easy commitment to make.

700 euros down, ever thought about staking Trickett and letting him have a spin lol you will either be multi millionaires or selling your bums for the next 25 years!

Are Dan and Abz still in the team? Not seen them for a while

killjoy1987: Are Dan and Abz still in the team? Not seen them for a while

nope

Thanks Chris

Sad to see you're not part of it anymore but if it doesn't feel right it doesn't feel right and kudos to you! Been a really mad and wonderful 2 months for you reading your posts and your pics, and I agree tournies are so much more fun!

Jon-PokerVIP:

I don't really want to nit pick as it is water under the bridge and I certainly made big mistakes through this but my loss was 211 euros! That is why I took some time off as I felt I was just going to spew money chasing volume!

Me and the Mrs are doing good and I love the job! Hope your fitness kick is still going strong!

Currently down around €1000 on the month again sadly. Was really hoping for a profitable month or under the 500 mark. We actually had a new guy join who lost his full bankroll on day 2.....if he has not paid it back by October 1st he will be named and shamed under the new scheme.

Add your "Room Name" username and register with PokerVIP