Going live in couple of minutes! Gonna stream all evening as well!

Well, I've just hung out on your stream for a while (my username is like w***f, it will be my secondary/private Twitch account, I think) and I have two main objections.

1. The 5-minute delay is way too big and disrupts the chat interaction dramatically. 2-3 minutes are much better, and the risk of being targeted by a stream sniper (someone who tries to retrieve your current hole cards from the stream) is still low unless there's a team of snipers working together who would be detected by GG and banned soon anyway.

2. You're using curse words way too often, every minute, I think. Being the face of N8, you need to convey a more positive message to the audience and be more politically correct, imo. E.g. 'rock' is much politer than 'nit' while denoting the same extremely tight kind of players.

On a side note, be more careful with accusations too. If I'm not mistaken, you once told me, 'What kind of poker and at which stack depth do you play yourself? I guess, you're bumhunting those 10 bb shortstackers', essentially accusing me of a breach of GG's ecology agreement (In fact, I'm most proficient at Fortune Spin, but I've been playing and learning AoF Omaha lately.) Of course I forgive you, especially because I don't remember the exact wording, but be mindful of your language in the future so that you don't get unnecessary problems with viewers' complaints to N8.

Apart from that, your talking skill and interaction with the chat are OK. You just need to talk more, try doing it all the time, telling the audience every positive or neutral thought that comes to your mind, in a polite way. I know it needs a lot of practice and I can't expect instant improvement from you. In fact, I'm bad at talking myself

@tonycoon Thank you very much, I was wondering if it was you

1. I changed delay to 3 min, already played a session with it.

2. I watched Lex Veldhuis stream before, I guess I got too influenced from him - he's PS sponsored pro and curses like 3x every minute, yet it is the greatest stream of all time! No problem to cut away using curse words for me, since I read your comment, I have not said any.

I think we got a bit mixed up - I was asking you what stakes / game where you playing, and then I said it would be really annoying if anyone from stream would troll me and sit me with 10bb stack and I joked if you are not one of those guys - English is not my first language, I sometimes mix up words (also in my 1st language).

I really appreciate this kind of constructive input, thank you again!
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Today stream went well - in morning session I got randomly hosted by a bigger channel and got like ~50 viewers and bunch of new followers, so that was kinda cool. I had no other plans today, so went overtime and played till like 21:30 and streamed for 8.5h total. Finally started to win pots and won 8 BI's today, roll at like 160$ post RB.

I feel that my stream is getting better by every session, I'm becoming more comfortable, and like with everything you start - it improves exponentially.

Shout out to @nojusticenopeace for tuning in as well!
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Some hands
1)Tightest fold of challenge so far


2) Very marginal pf complete, but I can haz quads tooooo


3) Banggggggggg

Week ended pretty meh, I won some all ins, but lost it back every other way. I was down 2 BI's and decided that I will rostucko, so I did it. Finished the day +2.5$ post RB, so roll is 161.5$.

Soo, I won 6.15 BI's in first 5 days of challenge, I hoped for a quick start, but what can you do. Hopefully 2nd week brings some heat and we get to NL25!
Maybe I'll play some tomorrow, but probably not. Sunday 100% off.

Stream is slowly picking up, so that's cool! Getting my mic set up Monday afternoon as well. Shout out to @ProJondi who made his appearance today!

Don't have any cool hands to post, maybe this one. I was going for flop x/r. Do you take a different line?

Just in case: it's not well-known that one can test the Twitch stream without going live!

Played a 3h bonus session today. Did not win monies
On Monday I will try out a session where I play super nitty, like 12/9/3, basically opening same range every position, will be boring af, but might work quite well at those games.

I don't understand how an optimally exploitive strategy can be positionally unaware. The position especially matters vs passive recreationals because they're transparent and so you get one extra street of value or one extra free card when you're IP.

What does a typical recreational in the N8 NL10 field look like? Loose-passive? Tight-passive? Loose-aggro? (Sorry, I wasn't paying attention to the tables themselves.)

If the field is passive and hence doesn't mind you seeing the flop, how about limping with suited connectors and small pocket pairs, especially from the button?

Loose-passive. There are few loose-aggro that we like, but they can be easily spotted and I wouldn't nit-up against them IP.

Limping SC's and low PP's might be a good idea, I can definitely try it out.

It's pretty weird, but I've seen a reg with couple of hundred thousand sample size at Bovada Zone NL50/100 (anon zoom) with stats like I mentioned, and he crushed like 13bb/100 ev.

With rake being high (and even hands that end pre flop are raked at N8), cutting down some of our worse hands might even be good, don't you agree?

How do you get such sample sizes on the same reg in the anon game? The only way I can think of is to have the reg report his own stats himself. Otherwise, 'Player 15' from one day/session may be a different reg from the 'Player 15' from the another day/session.

Ouch, I didn't notice that there's preflop rake

This explains why the field is passive - the preflop rake implies that you shouldn't 3+ bet another reg pre unless you have a premium PP (KK+, I think, though I'm not sure about QQ). This is a well-known unwritten rule for highly raked live games, and it's especially applicable to the games that are raked pre. 3-betting a reg who is isolating a few fishy limpers is a mauvais ton, as it will throw the fish out and leave the regs HU against each other and make the poker room the only winner of the hand in terms of Galfond dollars. The soft play between regs is a form of implicit collusion against the poker room, but I don't think GG bans regs for it.

As for cutting down the worst hands, it's definitely true because of the rake, but it seems that you don't understand well how the hand strength is determined at live/soft tables - it depends not only on the 'raw' equity against opponents' ranges, but also the 'playability' of the hand. You must already know the 'playability' consideration from your PLO studies.

Will Tipton (aka 'yahq' on 2p2), an expert in game theory and HUSnGs, has proposed a measure that quantifies 'playability' - the capture factor (CF), which is the ratio of the amount that Hero can win if he hits his outs to the pot amount after his call. E.g., if the pot becomes $1 after Hero's call and he can extract an extra $0.5 (an opponent's bet) if he hits, then CF = ($1+$0.5)/$1 = 1.5.

Hands with positive implied odds have CF>1, while those with negative implieds have CF less than 1. Also, the better is Hero's absolute or relative (to the preflop aggressor) position, the bigger is the CF.

In the hand strength chart in your head (that will depend on the situation, incl. stack sizes, positions, reads), hands and draws should be sorted not by their raw equity, but by equity multiplied by the CF. Therefore, hands that have both a mediocre equity and a mediocre CF (e.g. K8o in CO) should be just folded because of the high rake, whereas nutty hands like low PPs and SCs are profitable enough IP in a passive environment to be playable even despite the high rake.

As a PLO student, you must already be familiar with the distinction between pushing and pulling hands, which is surely applicable to Holdem too. In Tipton's terms, a pushing hand is one with a high equity and a pulling hand is one with a high CF. Premium hands are the ones that are both pushing and pulling. Strong pushing (incl. premium) hands should be played aggressively, while strong non-premium pulling ones should be played passively as they need as many players in the pot as possible, to get paid more when they hit the nuts.

There's been a lot of discussion about limping in the 2p2 Live Low Stakes NL forum, e.g. here, and there are actually many different opinions on this; I've given just my own perspective as someone who's played enough PLO but hardly any NLH cash, so take it with a grain of salt

Oops, I wrote a silly thing there (confused the situation with the one in live PLO, where preflop equities are so close that 3-betting doesn't make sense at all except maybe premium AA** when the fish is known to cold-call 3-bets eagerly).

The impression that I've got from a few minutes of reading the LLSNL forum is that, in high rake NL, it's OK not to have a 3-betting range at all (i.e. flat AA/KK too - for balance vs the reg opener), or to 3-bet QQ+/AK, or to 3-bet wider vs someone who is known to have a high fold % to 3-bets. E.g. there's a long thread with a debate about 3-betting vs flatting marginal stuff like KJo in the BB.

I should have clarified why CF is a useful concept. Its advantage is that it generalises the concept of a 'dirty out' in the situation when some of the outs are each worth more than a 'standard' out because there implied odds (IO) when they hit, while some of the outs are worth less than a 'standard' out because there are reverse implied odds (RIO) when they hit, and it's unclear whether Hero's draw as a whole has IO or RIO.

E.g. imagine that Hero has A5 IP in a HU pot on the J109 flop and Villain donkbets $150 into a $200 pot. Assume that he'll always lead $300 into the $500 pot OTT if Hero flats OTF, but Villain will c/f OTR if the turn is a spade or a queen.

Hero's ace outs are dirty because the flop hits Villain's preflop flatting range very hard. Let's assume for simplicity that, because of the RIO, Hero will win only $100 from the pot on average if he hits an ace OTT. Thus the ace outs are worth 0.2x.

On the other hand, Hero's spade outs are each worth more than a 'standard' out due to the implied odds. If the turn is a spade or a queen, Hero will win not just the $500 pot that will be in the centre after the flop, but also Villain's $300 2nd barrel. So each flush out is worth 1.6x.

All in all, although Hero has 12 outs nominally and 12/47 is less than the 30% equity needed for the flop call, we can pretend as if Hero has 3*0.2 + 9*1.6 = 15 outs, or, in other words, his overall CF is 15/12 = 1.25, and it turns out that it's enough for Hero's call OTF because 15/47 > 30%.

If we go back to the preflop, whether A5s has IO or RIO there is debatable. The ace outs are dirty because Hero will pay off to an ace with a better kicker. The wheel straight and flush parts of the equity, though, have significant IO. Also, the hand can sometimes win the showdown unimproved (or improved to a pair of 5s) vs passive villains, which makes it better than, say, 52s (which will also lose to a pair of 5s with a better kicker). The overall CF of the hand depends on opponents' tendencies, but in a vacuum, it looks like a decent pulling hand on the button in a 100 bb loose-passive game that can flat a 3 bb open (NL regs, feel free to correct me).

Very impressive @tonycoon ! I think this is the largest piece of strategy posted ITT!

CF implementing in our arsenal is interesting, never seen this term before in Holdem streets, just implied odds.

Opening in loose passive fishy games - I messed up a bit and came out with this - green V means limp, red X means fold. UTG and MP are positions that are affected the most as it is very likely people behind will call very wide. I think in CO/BU we shouldn't be open limping, but we can remove some hands from opening range if BU is loose passive (opening normal with tight reg on our left). About BUT - I think we should open the same nevertheless - we are IP and we will have auto profit cbet spots. Of course if blinds are sticky post and calling down uber light, we tighten up as well. Thoughts about this? Something to add/remove? (ignore SB as I use exploitative limping strategy (limp trash, open strongest holdings))



3betting - not really sure how to approach it. I mean, we have AJo COvMP, a clear 3bet. If we flat, it is super likely that flop will be 3way+ and AJo does not benefit from that. Same spot, we have A5s - also a 3bet. Maybe we should just flat these suited Aces instead and see a family flop? To sum up - QQ+/AKo+ 3bet only seems very drastic and not optimal even in these games imo (In position).

Blind defense - I am 3betting polarized here, and maybe we can drop most of the 3bet bluff part and be weighted way more towards value? Like, BU opens 2.5bb, 85s should be a 3bet, but we just go for the fold. We have a lot of these suited 3gappers and hands like Q2s in our 3bet bluff range (even way more junk hands vs 2x BU open).

Other option - drop 3betting polarized at all and just 3bet stronger merged range.
Thoughts?


About that Bovada reg - he had (or still has) a thread at 2+2, many 2+2 regs were surprised about those stats/results. It was ~1 year ago I read it.

Only 4h stream today, had to deal with people being lazy and entitled.
Ran good though, won 3 BI's and BR is 173$ now. 1-2 days like this and NL25!

Fun hands:
1) Had to adjust my more passive PF approach for this guy..


2) PEW PEW PEW #GTO

Miss Xuan Liu just joined the challenge bro, dunno if you know who that is, if so just do not be afraid, she actually isn't that good Although she plays 400nl on N8 she is down on Stars like 14k or so at the cash games and although she has like 500k+ winnings, her net profit in MTTs is like -40k. Live looks better with 1.8 milli winnings, dunno how much in net profit or how she is doing in live cash, but I just can say I would always join her table. Just check out her stream, there is so much randomness going on, it's literally a bit frightening

Guess it is just like with all those other sponsored "pros". You take a look at their social media presences, you see all those jet set/living the good life pics and you think to yourself "wow, they must be so good at teh pokaz!" but truth is they all suck^^ No wonder they can afford such a lifestyle, when you think of how much money they get blown up their asses from their sponsors (back in the days, some Full Tilt max contracts were like 180k/mth!!). I mean, comon, there is no sport (if you consider poker a "sport") in the wordl, where you can be terrible and still you will get sponsored and shit....
Makes me a bit sick and angry and also jealous when you see all those grinders out there, who put in shitloads of hrs of work and effort and nevertheless those sponsored guys make more money with "being famous" or pretty or random attention social media whores^^

Rant over

Anyways, I did not read all of the previous posts but when it comes to max exploitation of loose passive games, I just play my default gameplan with some major exploits:

If there is a limper: I limp behind like bottom 5% of my open raising range. Like UTG limps I limp 22, 67s,.... in MP e.g + some hands that aren't in my open raising range. I am not really sure how wide you can go here, but everything that can flop straights and is suited seems fine at first sight; some medium-low Kx/Qxs as well.
I iso raise the top 95% of my opening range then.
When it comes to 3betting, I just never bluff, but go for a completely linear range instead. Esp. when they go for the "min open any postion", you can easily 3b (i call it re-iso ) like any suited Ax, any suited broadway, 99(88)+, T9s and ATo+, KJo+, QJo, whereas QJo is close.
So overall there is nothing wrong with going for a 15% depolarised range, against some super terrible ones you can even go wider like 20%. OOP I would go way tighter, as they typically never fold once they open raised. Against min opens I tend to make it like 5x or so. Range... not sure. Top 10% linear still seems makeable. Such a line up btw is the only one I go for a calling range in the SB, as the EV of cold calling some hands is then >> EV 3betting marginal stuff, as you get never squeezed of yada yada, you know what I mean

I can't guarantee that my approach is maxEV, as on stars you never have to do so, as it most likely is like 4regs+hero+spot, unlike on N8 where it is like Nit+Hero+4 loose passive fish

Btw, a lot of the russian guys do that even against regs, over at gypsyteam they have coaches who teach that style and they are doing well! (talking bout the depolarised 3b ranges)

Hope that might help a bit!

gl gl, will join the stream these days!

€: my post may sound a bit harsh I guess and also a bit cocky in the beginning (I really struggle with this -.- ). Nothing against the sponsored guys/live poker pros, they make money, so I guess they're doing fine (although it may not be at poker trololol), Xuan Liu seems like a nice and friendly person, I just tend to through out some random flames and rants from time to time. Whatever^^

She's in the top 10 or, at worst, top 25 of female poker pros by prettiness (in my perverted opinion; note that I have no yellow fever), and she has a long-time boyfriend, so she would surely be able to afford to spew online with or without the N8 contract.

She even plays AoF on stream* ($0.10/0.25 thus far). I hope she moves up to $0.25/0.50 (i.e. Omaha) next week

And yes, I was thinking about her yesterday (before your post) when I was JKo

I hope the network doesn't ban me for bumhunting if I start sitting onto her tables

Actually, it's Jonathan Karamalikis (instagram.com/jonathankaramalikis), who has cashed for a total of $2.7M live according to THM and over $6M online according to P5 where he's known as xMONSTERxDONGx (which was also his FTP SN); he's MONSTER_DONG at Stars and... was Ass2Mouth at Party (maybe has changed the SN there this month).

Don't want to de-rail MGs blog, but can you post any proof? It's not that I don't believe you, I totally do! (I know JK and I saw him on some pics she posted on twitter) I am just one of those "pics or..." internet dorks

The difference between Xuan Liu and some alternative average or above looking, but good poker player that could be sponsored is that most of males and a lot of females would snap stick it in Xuan Liu - she clearly is hot! So, it is much more +EV for poker room to have her as sponsored pro as she will get more attention to the site. If I have to choose between watching her stream or Tonkaaap's / Staples, it's a no brainer - I choose her And I am trying to get good at this game - imagine how easy choice it is for a random person who's playing for fun? (and 95% poker players are males). I'd love to play against her, but sadly our time zones correlates in wrong way

It's so easy for above avg looking girl to get contracts etc in poker world, there is this Hungarian girl signed by Party - she's no good at poker and only like 6.5 looking. But it is the same in the real world, if the girl got looks, she can suck her way up very quickly if she's that kind of girl and going for it.

Good thing that males dominate this forum, otherwise there could be fireworks from feminists