I don't have that SB stat I looked. I have fold to BTN open, Fold to CO open, fold to LP steal but not the fold to SB one. I've tried to filter for it but can't work it out. I tried to build one myself but just keeps saying invalid expression. Not sure why.

I'll give the heavier 3betting a try but I just can't see how this would ever work. If he is opening say 40% from the BTN and when I 3bet he only folds say 40% then I'm not making money from the 3bet. He 4bets and I fold, not good. He calls the 3bet with say 20% range I'm a 40/60 dog in a bloated pot OOP. All I have folded are the worse cards and I've iso'd myself against his nut range. Sure if I hit a dream come true flop like two overs and a FD I'm happy but most of the time it will be Q63r, or A94r and then what do I do?

Its a real tough one for me as I see lots of better players telling me to call more 3bets or 3bet more PF but then what do I do. I get crushed in SRP's so how will making them bigger and their range tighter help me at all. I think we had this exact same exchange a while ago actually as this seems familiar. Might have been with someone else though. I just don't know how to proceed as all the maths I do off the table backs up the view that in the games I play in 3betting more is suicide. No-one else is as weak post flop as me. They call all sorts of trash so bluffing is not going to work. I need to be lucky enough to hit cards to value bet. If I don't then its going to cost me a fortune. And I don't hit anything.

I

I'vejust been reading through some of this and crazy cookies advice is definitely good regarding 3bets, however i like you struggle with 3 bets out of position - something i did to remedy this was calling more from the BB instead of 3 betting and i find it works very well at 20nl ---

People on the button almost expect you to be 3 betting wide from the SB and BB and so therefore play back - I am finding currently a better approach , eso from the BB( SB not so good as you will be getting squeezed a lot) is modern blind defence:

Watch through these vids and articles and really focus on the exact spots, I've been getting great results and it has really levelled my redline as I am getting a lot of folds in the situations they talk about

worth a shot anyway!

https://www.pokervip.com/en/strategy-articles/texas-hold-em-no-limit-advanced/modern-blind-defence-in-poker

https://www.pokervip.com/en/coaching-videos/defending-blinds-post-flop--part-1

https://www.pokervip.com/en/coaching-videos/defending-blinds-post-flop--part-2

If you are 3betting the range I suggested you will hit so many flops that you can barrel on that it will be +EV. If villain continues with a 20% range are we are 3betting a 15% range then we are stronger than him anyway The key is to look at your cbetting game- if we miss the board completely then we can just check fold. If we have T9s and the flop comes AK4 two tone we have no FD or BDFD then sure, betting will be suicidal. But when we flop a FD we only need him to fold like 15-20% and have enough equity to bet OTT again.

Go out and try it and try to be very deliberate with your cbetting ie does the board hit villains range? Yes- then we need some equity to cbet. No- Then we need less equity to cbet. The great thing with 3bp is that most people screw them up so if you focus on that area of your game and become good at it you will be able to crush players at your games in the biggest pots

It went pretty well straight off the bat. I got a lot of luck but also managed to make a few plays in 3bet pots. 6BI back. Would have been a bit better but for QQ vs AA in a 3bet pot on low monotone flop when I had the FD as well and then made a loose call on the river to lose 1.5BI. Would be nice if that heater continued but if nothing else it won me enough BR to continue this aggressive 3bet experiment.

What range would you suggest 3betting then out of the blinds and BTN? MP and CO I get (don't flat TT-JJ and ATs etc like I have been, 3bet a merged value range unless have good reads) but not seen the reco for those. Would love to know how you run that.

All of the ranges I'll say here are all without reads and you can edit them in parts also. For example I might suggest in a spot that my 5b bluff han will be KJo but it will probably have the same EV as ATo. Also I'm on my phone so can't really give percentages but I'll give you what my % aim is as well

In SB I always go 3x and a 3.5x v a min raise. This is because our range is going to be top end heavy so we want more pots when we have nutted hands. SB v btn 2.5x open my range would be something like 22+ 67s+ J9s+ QTs+ K8s+ Axs+ AJo+ KJo+ QJo+. % Aim would be like 15-18% with some flats facing a 2x (55-99 are nice to flat now) but with more SC and suited one gapers.

In SB facing CO I take out the one gapers and bottom end of suited Ks. Might also take out 22-66. So maybe more like 77+ 78s+ QTs+ KTs+ AXs are now up to you is still 3 bet them but might be fine to fold some, AJo+ KQo. Probably closer to 13% same again facing 2x few more sc get in there, 22-44 are 3 betting 55-99 are flatting. V 3x just take out the bottom end so you have something like 12 or 13%

Facing EP/MP its pretty tight. 99+ KJs+ AQo+ AJs+. I wouldn't have a go if you took some of those hands a flatted tho, so long as you had a x/r range otf and stuck to it!

In the BB I make it 3.3-4x depending in size (smaller equals bigger 3bet) as we have the best hands and worst hands in our range. We want folds with the worst and big pots with the best Facing btn we can now call quite a lot so pretty much anything suited is playable facing 2 or 2.5x. I now 3bet the top end of my range ie TT+ suited BWs and suited aces but will also 3bet some trash like 95s and 84s facing a 2x then moving up to K5s v 3x. This is because we just get a tonne of folds and will still flop draws enough of the time to barrel to get him to fold.

Facing EP I just call a bunch and 3bet the same as above without the trash.

In the CO/MP I will 3 bet 99+ ATs+ AJo+ KQ. Our range is pretty strong so good luck to villain playing back at us here his start needs to be just not up but they tend to do the opposite which is awful v our range

Apologies for random spellings if there are some- my phones autocorrect plays games post any hands or As and I'll try and help where I can

Nice info there CrazyCookie, esepcialy regarding the changes of the 3bet size, or to flat or no, depending on the open size of the villain!... I have to study so much.
Paul, I found the w34z4l's RFI, Cold-call and 3bet so you can take a look here as well and see what is best for you:
*********************
RFI
UTG 55+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AJo+, KQo
MP 22+, A8s+, A5s-A4s, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, 54s, ATo+, KQo
CO 22+, A2s+, K6s+, Q7s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+, 54s, ATo+, KJo+, QJo, JTo, T9o
BTN 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 85s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s, A2o+, K7o+, Q8o+, J9o+, T8o+, 98o, 87o
SB 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q4s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+, 54s, A7o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o, 98o
*********************
Cold-call
MPvsUTG QQ-77, AJs+, KQs, JTs, T9s, 98s, AQo+
COvsUTG QQ-55, ATs+, KQs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, AQo+
BTNvsUTG QQ-33, ATs+, KQs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AQo+
SBvsUTG QQ-44, AQs+, AQo+
BBvsUTG QQ-22, ATs+, KQs, JTs, AQo+

COvsMP QQ-55, ATs+, KJs+, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AQo+
BTNvsMP JJ-33, AQs-ATs, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AQo+
SBvsMP QQ-55, AQs, KQs, AQo+
BBvsMP QQ-22, ATs+, KJs+, QJs, JTs, AQo+

BTNvsCO TT-22, AJs-A9s, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T8s+, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, AQo-AJo, KQo
SBvsCO TT-66, AJs-ATs, KJs+, QJs, AQo-AJo, KQo
BBvsCO JJ-22, AJs-A9s, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, AQo-AJo, KQo

SBvsBTN TT-77, AJs-A9s, KTs+, QJs, JTs, AJo, KJo+, QJo
BBvsBTN TT-22, ATs-A2s, K5s+, Q7s+, J7s+, T8s+, 98s, 87s, AJo-A2o, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o

BBvsSB 99-22, ATs-A2s, K5s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 65s, 54s, AJo-A5o, K8o+, Q9o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o
*********************
3bet
MPvsUTG KK+, A5s-A4s, AJo, KQo

COvsUTG KK+, A5s-A4s, KJs, AJo, KQo

BTNvsUTG KK+, A5s-A3s, KJs, AJo, KQo

SBvsUTG KK+, KQs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s

BBvsUTG KK+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s

COvsMP KK+, A5s-A3s, J9s, T8s, AJo, KQo

BTNvsMP QQ+, AKs, A9s-A2s, T8s, 97s, AJo, KQo

SBvsMP KK+, AKs, JTs, T8s+, 98s, 87s

BBvsMP KK+, T8s+, 98s, 87s, 76s

BTNvsCO JJ+, AQs+, A8s-A2s, K9s-K6s, Q9s-Q8s, J8s-J7s, 97s, 86s, AKo, ATo-A9o, KJo-KTo, QJo

SBvsCO JJ+, 55-22, AQs+, KTs, QTs, J9s+, T8s+, 97s+, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, AKo

BBvsCO QQ+, AQs+, A5s-A4s, K9s, Q9s, J9s, T8s, 97s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, 54s, AKo

SBvsBTN JJ+, 66-44, AQs+, A8s-A2s, K9s-K5s, QTs-Q8s, J9s-J8s, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, 54s, AQo+

BBvsBTN JJ+, AJs+, K4s-K2s, Q6s-Q2s, J6s, T7s, 97s-96s, 86s-85s, 75s+, 64s+, 53s+, 43s, AQo+

BBvsSB TT+, AJs+, K4s-K2s, Q5s-Q2s, J6s, T6s, 96s, 85s, 74s, 64s, AQo+, A4o-A2o, K7o-K5o, Q8o
*********************

lovin' this thread right now - this is the kinda stuff i needed to see

Oh BTW with co and mp you can have a cold calling start ofc, I decided against it because I began calling too wide in those spots and ended up just 3betting a nutted range. Therefore you have a very capped range when you flat some hands and 3 bet only the top of your range. You can certainly devise a strategy where calling will be +EV though

Right guys, once again thank for all the great input. I've got a lot of work to do off the tables to redo some range work I think. Glad to see it is also helping some others with their work on 3betting especially. I think after this I'd like to work on playing flops once we are called on various textures.

For now though I'm off to play. Doing the work is definately +EV but I'm on the cusp of hitting a $15 payout on the rake race which is like 150bb's for me so I doubt anything I can do will add more than trying to secure that payout over the 1k or so hands I may get in tonight (unless this 3bet business adds like 15bb/100 to my winrate!)

Continues to go well in this new aggressive style. I'm on a mega heater mind you so its not especiallyy good play I doubt. It interesting that I attribute most of my losses to bad play and most of my wins to run good. I'm the opposite of most poker players!

Check this graph out for before and after! Hopefully I should be good for the rake race bonus as well but will check that out later. Does that get paid on the Friday with RB if I did hit it do you think?

It's interesting as I would expect your redline to benefit from being more aggressive rather than your green line but your redline has stayed the same - either way good news the green one is on the up!

I'm not out tonight (I basically hate New Years eve) so I think given there will not be much traffic and the rake race is over I will do some work off the tables on ranges preflop and some more work on post flop. I don't want to squander this little heater by getting complacent. The trashing I have got recently should serve as a good incentive to work harder.

The changes in this last 2800 hands or so are striking. I'll post both.

Before:




After:

Very nice comeback there Paul.
It is nice that you 3bet much more and so on, but as I talked to a friend the day before, you have to look what kind of hands are making those numbers. For example I can 3bet all kind of shit hands, just to increase my 3bet but have no ideea, why I 3bet that hand and not another one. (I am talking about my situation). Just study, make some data analysis about all those numbers that interest you from the hud and actually see what are you doing right or wrong.
Having good numbers is a good start, improvement but is not neceserily equal with being profitable.
You are on a little heater as well...it is impossible to mentain WTSD 27 and WSD 66 ... I don't know any player having those numbers on the long run.
And as karmakaze said, another question mark is that the red line has the same trajectory.
I don't want to discourage you, just be carefull and study.
Cheers and happy new year!

Yeh, perhaps i should elaborate also, i realised i jet left a statement with no real reason for why i would expect our redline to benefit…

Bascially by being more aggressive you are effectively aiming to get your opponents to fold more frequently than you did before, which should see an increase in your redline…

What you are seeing is an increase in your blue line which is great, and you are winning a lot at show down… if you can keep that up AND increase your redline then you are going to be on a real roll...

I think Balonas is wise to say be careful… really try to look for spots where you can get your opponent to fold pre by acting aggressivelyand choose your opponents wisely…

good luck!

A couple of big changes. 3bet overall nearly doubled. RFI jumped up a little bit I think as because I was being so aggressive I was stopping such wide opens from people to my right. My open ranges didn't change. CBet flop fell a little bit but not by much as I was getting into 3bet pots more and getting some folds there. Turn cbet is much more sensible. River cbet is still odd. I'm not sure what that is really? There was a couple of guys who were pot floating every river that I was checking to a lot to induce but not sure thats enough. Could be I suppose given small sample size. Call 2bet has fallen nicely but CO and MP is still quite high I think.

I'm actually folding more to 3bets which is a bit odd but I think my overall aggression has lowered the frequency people are restealing me in this small sample. Interesting to see how that plays out.

My redline is on the same trajectory I guess as I'm not trying to make huge plays post flop and get people to fold. I'm still a bit weak tight post flop it just means that when I do get cards no-one was giving me credit as I was 3betting so much so was able to get lots of value at showdown. I also had a good read on a couple of multitabling robots that worked out great for me (hence lower river cbet) on a bet bet check call line. Its why I say its a super heater and why my WSD is so high. At one stage it was like 80%. It won't last of course I'm no-where near that good. So I am still doing some 3betting pre, cbetting and then having to fold.

At NL10 on Paddy fold equity is pretty low, hence why the aggressive strategy seemed like such a risk to me initially. Trying to be extra aggressive postflop and get a upward sloping redline I think would be impossible for me. Instead it has manipulated my opponents view of my range to thinking I have loads of trash in my 3betting range and people adjusted poorly and started calling down multiple streets with TPGK or shoving ATs AIPF and I was able to get great value when I hit cards. WIthout the heater this would have been just like before and the big difference between before and after is not so much my aggression and using fold equity but the ability of the aggressive style to cash in on my card rush by getting lots of max value. If you are passive and never bet or raise even idiots will fold when you suddenly wake up. If you are always doing it they have no idea whats going on.

Oh and Balonas, its not random cards to get the numbers up its using the ranges suggested by Cookie (and a bit of adjustment for specific players).

Its made me much more active preflop. This leads to big stacks and confidence and allowed me to play about with my ranges as some players adjusted badly. I'll try and put some examples up later. I'm also going to work up my ranges where I ended up from all this and see if they make sense.

I also won 2 BI on the Rake Race. Top day all round. Doesn't being a fish on a heater make poker easy!

I'm now back into profit! With RB obvs I'm not going to beat this game easily with 10bb/100 rake to cope with. When the rake race gets paid in I'll have a little bit of leeway hopefully. I'm going to play in a bit though and I would imagine my heater is due to end so I'll probably have lost it before it gets paid in.

I cannot stop making bad plays at the minute against loose fish. I get so annoyed at them check calling and floating me that I end up getting it all in with QQ on K high flops or KK on A high flops and surprise surprise this time they did river 2 pair or flat AA pre and I lose my stack it wouldn't be so bad if I was bet bet betting and they got lucky but because I fold so much I level myself into thinking they are exploiting me.

I also keep losing money vs aggro players as I can't deal with the variance of being aggressive back at them so I start nut peddling and cold calling really strong ranges hoping to catch them but then never hitting anything and bleeding away blinds.

I'm still doing ok as there are enough bad players and my 3betting and preflop aggression is still working well but I'd be climbing out of this limit if I wasn't such as spaz sometimes.

Play tighter against agressive players. Even fold preflop if in the blinds is an agressive one and you don't know for sure how to play your hand if you miss the flop. Make some sort of plan before clicking any button preflop, like in the case that you completly miss the flop and so on, watch his fold to cbet stat, donk stat and so on to have an ideea about your play on flop etc.