ProJondi

I was about to give up but when he checks back on the turn i felt like i could get him of something like KQ, and i did only have 6 high so i didnt feel like checking

Last Post 8 years ago by

Sam

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https://www.pokervip.com/thread/view?forum=poker-strategy&slug=100nl-65-suited-bluff&nav=56bafbaed39043d7738b4582

I think we can just fold pre flop honestly. I like this as a squeeze spot vs 2 but as a 3Bet SB v MP this does not fall within my range.

I think we rep that river well and can get AJ type hands to fold. Also like the sizing.

This is a normal 3 bet for me vs a CO open.

Tough to say about the c bet without knowing anything about the player. Vs an unknown I would check and give up. If he folds a lot to c bets, and defends wide IP vs 3 bets then is probably fine with the backdoor flush draw.

On the river again it's tough to know if he will fold Qx. What do you think his range for calling flop but checking back the turn is? Can he have enough combos of KQ QJs to make it profitable?

youre probably right turlock, check give up might be the correct play.

but after cbetting the flop and him checking back and im with 6 high on the river, i guess we have to take a shot right? we are repping alot of hands

I'd rather 3b with a hand like KJ which has a double blocker which increases our fold equity a lot. Also high cards go up in value when SPR is lower.

45s has an advantage in that we can barell a lot but so I like it if he doesnt fold much pre and we want to move him off post flop.

As for the riv bet I like it if he has KQ in his range and we think he bets AQ a high% on the turn. You represent a credible AK so he should fold KQ.

I don't like your thought process btw "but after cbetting the flop and him checking back and im with 6 high on the river, i guess we have to take a shot right? we are repping alot of hands"

Think about it more mathematically. Think what his range is, what your range is (if he's a thinking player), what type of player he is (e.g nit, station). Then bluff if you think you're getting enough folds.

anonymous tables..

On anonymous tables I would always check fold here. You need strong reads to make this play

Fold pre, Bet flop smaller. 56ss in your 3b range from SB will get you owned. Use some hands with an A/K/Q in them for their card removal and raw equity vs his calling range if you feel like you want to 3b and get some folds, like A3ss or K6ss. I wouldn't even 3b them from the SB though. If he is calling 3bs too wide you would be better of 3betting for pure value with ATo A8ss etc.

Suited connectors are standard 3 bets from the blinds versus LP opens by players who fold a sensible frequency. BB and SB.

Granted 65s is at the very bottom of that range, but SCs give you so many more barreling cards on the turn compared to smaller Ax and KTs type hands. How often with those hands do you c bet OOP then feel you can't bet for value against villain's range? With something like 65s, you can c bet according to your backdoor draws, and it's an easy give up if the wrong card falls.

Here is my SB defending range vs a CO open, as given to me by w34z3l
The light blue hands have a choice of flatting or 3 betting, depending on the player opening.

Attached Image

Turlock: How often with those hands do you c bet OOP then feel you can't bet for value against villain's range?

Not very often, because I wouldn't be 3betting 56ss or A2ss as a "standard play"

It would be with the intention of either getting 2 or 3 streets of value, or bluff catching, or double barreling a lot of boards. That picture of your range doesn't compare your equity vs villains likely calling range. Granted, Ax does have a lot of reverse implied odds on a lot of A high boards but 56ss does too. You will also get to the river with waaaay too many hands that are now at the bottom of your range and should bluff with, like in this instance.

Turlock: Suited connectors are standard 3 bets from the blinds versus LP opens by players who fold a sensible frequency. BB and SB.

Granted 65s is at the very bottom of that range, but SCs give you so many more barreling cards on the turn compared to smaller Ax and KTs type hands. How often with those hands do you c bet OOP then feel you can't bet for value against villain's range? With something like 65s, you can c bet according to your backdoor draws, and it's an easy give up if the wrong card falls.

Here is my SB defending range vs a CO open, as given to me by w34z3l
The light blue hands have a choice of flatting or 3 betting, depending on the player opening.

Attached Image

The main thing when cbetting is realising our SPR is significantly shorter

When we look to pot control when we hit something with a hand like KJ, but winning that pot will still be 1/3-half our stack on average. We also have blockers which we barrel with too and 56s doesn't make a strong hand very often

Turlock: This is a normal 3 bet for me vs a CO open.

I would be fascinated to see your 3bet from blinds range. It must be enormous. Everyone has a different style, but I'd venture you're 3betting way too much.

CycleVancouver:

Turlock: This is a normal 3 bet for me vs a CO open.

I would be fascinated to see your 3bet from blinds range. It must be enormous. Everyone has a different style, but I'd venture you're 3betting way too much.

I agree, I would be 4betting this range around 30% and and folding to you about 20%. So you'd end up folding most of your range to my 4bets and playing pots out of position with weak holdings. However most players won't be as extreme but certainly regs will play back at you and exploit your range here.

Edit: I'm guessing that range is weighted though so not 100% of 97s?

Some good points. But like I said this is w34z3l's range. As played by himself , and taught to his students down to the smallest micros. If it works for him at 600NL I'm not so sure exactly how exploitable you expect it to be at 100NL and below.

But surely everyone here is playing an exploitable range to some degree, otherwise you're just leaving money on the table??

@Archi : I would only 3 bet the suited connectors/gappers vs a player opening a standard LP range and being the type to fold more than 50-55% on average, otherwise I fold.

@ Cycle : Not sure exactly which range you mean from the blinds. I have them all saved ready to show for each seat vs an open from each seat. Let me know exactly, and I'll post them up.

Looks like the player had something like JJ. So you could get better to fold, of course the small/mid pairs so I may go for a one and done on flop here and there if they fold to cbets enough and seem to set mine.
The river... there's possibly some JT, KT that may have called a nut gutshot on flop and checked the T so it's a little dangerous IMO. But it worked out I guess.

[quote=Turlock]Some good points. But like I said this is w34z3l's range. As played by himself , and taught to his students down to the smallest micros. If it works for him at 600NL I'm not so sure exactly how exploitable you expect it to be at 100NL and below.

Looks good that your adjusting by players, that's the critical thing here. I think you got his chart a little mixed up though. Here's

Green= value bet
Orange= mixed 3b/CC
Yellow= CC (I think you missed this bit out)
Red= 3b bluff

Now your range isn't so wide and you can barrel 56s for example cause your more value heavy. I know some high stakes players recommend KJo and KTo over the connectors though but weasel is a sicko if he plays 600nl and he also knows the micro's super well.

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@Turlock tx for posting the chart. Somehow I didn't see it when I made my first post. I wasn't even drinking.

But now I know why I 4bet so wide vs regs and get away with it. There are some regs that when I'm OOP I've taken to 4betting so often just on principle. And (also tx to weasel) I'm calling IP 2-3 streets quite often in 3bet pots with hands like 2nd pair, in the past I would've thought this is terrible but against some V's who can't help but fire away....

Archinator: [quote=Turlock]Some good points. But like I said this is w34z3l's range. As played by himself , and taught to his students down to the smallest micros. If it works for him at 600NL I'm not so sure exactly how exploitable you expect it to be at 100NL and below.

Looks good that your adjusting by players, that's the critical thing here. I think you got his chart a little mixed up though. Here's

Green= value bet
Orange= mixed 3b/CC
Yellow= CC (I think you missed this bit out)
Red= 3b bluff

Now your range isn't so wide and you can barrel 56s for example cause your more value heavy. I know some high stakes players recommend KJo and KTo over the connectors though but weasel is a sicko if he plays 600nl and he also knows the micro's super well.

Attached Image

Hey Archi

I'm confused why you think I mixed something up. Isn't the chart you posted exactly the same as what I did? Do you mean the DARK blue hands that I didn't mention? Those are standard cold calls, yes. Sorry, I didn't realise I'd said it in a way that was confusing. I spoke to Adam this afternoon and told him about the thread, hopefully he'll drop by and give a better explanation.

As for you 4 betting 30% of your CO range vs me 3 betting my range shown above, aren't you super exploitable if I pick up on this and adjust?

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