20NL: A coldcall spot with JJ in the BB

Posted 6 years ago

No info on villain who has just joined the table. I don't like a 4b or fold preflop, since the Stack-to-pot ratio is still fairly big when we play postflop and I think he never shoves AQ, so I'm behind against his range if he shoves pre.
When he check/calls he has a medium pair a lot I guess, or maybe AK. Or a hand 3b bluffed pre, like A7s or A5s that now picked up a pair.

Flop and turn seem standard. Do I shove the river? One potsized bet behind.

** Hand # 6599761690 starting - 2017-06-23 16:43:59
** Christiana - €20 Max [Hold'em] (0.10|0.20 NL - Cash Game) Real Money

Grilonka sitting in seat 1 with €21.41
HERO sitting in seat 2 with €29.42
MagicznyGrajek777 sitting in seat 3 with €35.90
Hasimba sitting in seat 5 with €49.42[Dealer]
Grilonka posted the small blind - €0.10
HERO posted the big blind - €0.20

** Dealing cards to HERO : JJ
MagicznyGrajek777 folded
Hasimba raised to €0.40
Grilonka raised to €1.30
HERO called - €1.20
Hasimba folded

** Dealing the flop: 257
Grilonka checked
HERO bet - €1.60
Grilonka called - €1.60

** Dealing the turn: 9
Grilonka checked
HERO bet - €3.50
Grilonka called - €3.50

** Dealing the river: 5
Grilonka checked
HERO ?
guzzlegutz123

Last Post 6 years ago by

guzzlegutz123

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Posted 6 years ago
I don't like his 3bet ,it's too small ,like a min 3 bet ,i think i 4bet- fold ,i don't expect to shove any bluff to throw you from better hand but he can call you with wors and QQ will be the only hand that beat you.I think it's ok to check back R, since you got no info on this player, there aren't many hands to call -76,78,88,TT ,the hands that beat you are 22,77,99,56s,A5s,QQ+ .
Posted 6 years ago
What? How is his 3bet a min 3bet? oO a min 3bet would be to 0.6 here not to 1.3 - his 3bet sizing is far off min.

In these positions you def. want to cold 4bet pre and not cold call. His 3bet range is the widest 3bet range out of all the positions - btn obviously is the widest open out of all, so this is a bit of a mandatory cold 4bet and then fold to a shove spot. Just for pure and clean value.

As played I'd vbet river for about half pot, trying to get called by some sort of middle pair, you just aren't beat often enough to not vbet here - and ther certainly are some hands that can call you.
Posted 6 years ago
Thanks, so clear 4bet/fold next time.
Posted 6 years ago
Never be afraid to 4bet into fold, people have the false perception of being "committed" once they 4bet, which really just isen't true.

This exact spot is actually a spot I'm cold 4betting a lot, basically any hand I want to play but I don't really want to cold call with, like AQs AJs KQs etc.
Posted 6 years ago
Scrubx: Never be afraid to 4bet into fold, people have the false perception of being "committed" once they 4bet, which really just isen't true.

This exact spot is actually a spot I'm cold 4betting a lot, basically any hand I want to play but I don't really want to cold call with, like AQs AJs KQs etc.


I know it's very villain dependant, but you would also cold4b 77-TT here? And how about a hand like TJs?
Posted 6 years ago
We have no info on BTN? We might be 4bet/folding into a 12/6/2.
Preflop if villain has just sat in we can't really say whether they would get AQ in or not, I got shoved on after 4betting a bad reg just today and he held 84s, we just never can tell sometimes!

As played it could be a bit overplay by me but I'm trying to get lots of money in flop and turn with that runout versus a check and I'd likely bet 1/2 on the river as well but I'm not really thinking of folding tbh.

Problem for me with 77-TT is the same as above, not enough info for me to say what I would do with 77-TT or JTs and maybe I'm not as brave as some of the other peeps.

I am available for target practice of course as always. Cheeky
Posted 6 years ago
I would usually fold the hand you listed - I hate the blockers of them for the purposes of cold 4betting - and we are not pushing as much equity as we are with a hand like JJ - so yeah I'd fold the ones you listed besides maybe not TT - I might cold 4bet TT but only if I have let's say about 500 hands on the 3better and he is 3betting in between 12-20% vs a btn open.

Posted 6 years ago
I'm playing on MPN so the time where we had reliable stats is over I'm afraid... No more HUDs.
Posted 6 years ago
You apparently still can have HUDs, jnandez is having HUD-stats while playing PLO on MPN.
Posted 6 years ago*
You get HUD stats on reg tables but only the hands that you VPIP and I think you only get the HH up to the point that you play the hand in, but not entirely sure about this part of it. All I know is that if you fold pre you get nothing. So it skews some of the stats a bit. At least that is how it is for NLHE, maybe PLO they didn't do it. There are no HH at all on the anonymous tables. This is also assuming you have not updated your HM2. If you have updated since the MPN change than HM2 will not import them as HM2 have completely stopped support and tracking for MPN skins, since the change.

I am with @Scrubx on this one. BBvSBvBU I am cold 4betting any hand I want to continue with, similar range to his, maybe slightly wider depending on 3 bettor. I am never overcalling the 3bet. Vs your typical SB 3bet or fold range of between 14-18% I think it is best. If you overcall you sort of just tell everyone exactly what you have. Also if you flat and the original raiser 4bets it kind of really sucks and they have a bit of incentive to do it since there is quite a lot of dead money in the middle and the SB 3b range in that spot is usually fairly wide. Just don't think you will see BU bluff 5bet shove there so if he does then you can fold. The tighter their 3b range is the less I will cold 4b.

As far as BU being tight. Even the 12/6 nits open wider than that on the BU, especially Hasimba. I have played him at 10nl and he is not that nitty. Even if they are tight, they are going to think your range is super strong and probably won't do anything too crazy without a good hand. If you call you are basically just set mining and will you ever get paid since everyone knows you have 77-JJ AQ.

I use this also as a default strategy against the average player in my pool if I have other info than maybe I will switch things up. I think his sizing is not that weird. Its 2bb to 6.5bb. My normal 3bet sizing there is 2bb to 7bb. Its not that uncommon to see a 6bb or 6.5bb 3b on MPN either. Even see 5bb and 5.5 bb sometimes. Then on the other spectrum you have guys that will go 2bb to 10bb or 3bb to 11bb.
Posted 6 years ago
Thanks @fawltyfelix . I did just install HM at a new laptop, so maybe I should download an older version again. I does make my play hard to analyze aswell, if you don't have any HH's to go through....
Posted 6 years ago
You have a couple of options for analyzing, both of them can be quite cumbersome and they don't necessarily help you with your own stats. First is you could just record yourself playing, using OBS or Camtasia or whatever else. If you have some editing software you could find the hands and cut them into their own small vid and post those on youtube for people to review. This option would be only option for Anonymous tables. Could just do like @Grocker6 and video record most if not all your sessions and post them in a journey and hope people watch them and give you feedback or do shorter 30 min ones from time to time. Second, for the reg tables if you open the replayer in the box on the bottom left of the replayer it has the text of the hand. It is not very friendly for posting and you would probably have to edit them a bit, but it does have all the action in it, might even be on the main table in one of the tabs, chat maybe. IDK. Basically open a text doc, like notepad or word and when the hand in question happens, you can open replayer, copy the text and just paste it in the text doc and just do all the interesting or worrisome hands and then when sesh is over you can look at them, edit them, etc

I don't do either cuz they are pretty cumbersome, but I also have a coach that I can do live plays with and record sessions and go over them with him if I want, so that works for me for now. As I move up I will probably start to expand out to other sites that track, but MPN is best site, IMO, for rake. They have the 3bb rake cap on pots so pretty sure it reduces amount of rake i pay. I think once I get over 50nl that difference won't be so big anymore so I think playing across multiples sites will be way to go
Posted 6 years ago
Thanks for your reply. I save hands and go over them 'the notepad way' like you described, but it does take some time. It works though.
I was thinking of making a journey, so that might also be a good option to get some more replies in. I have had a coach before, but with the stakes I play right now it's hard to afford one.

For now, all the replies on my threads have helped me on a lot, so I'll keep doing that aswell.