Grocker6

What do you think of this hand in general? I'll raise the flop bet for value as guys like this min bet all sorts of crap.
The turn I don't think is great for me as I beat none of his random 8x.
River small bet from villain? Call?

Player 5(SB) $10.06 - VP:22 PFR:11 AF:Inf. W:0| STL:50| 3B:0| CB:100| N:-0.08 Hands:9
Player 6(BB) $8.15 - VP:44 PFR:0 AF:Inf. W:0| STL:0| 3B:0| CB:|100 N:-0.25 Hands:9
Me(BTN) $10.84
Player 1(UTG) $11.08 - VP:67 PFR:22 AF:1.0 W:33|50 STL:0|0 3B:0| CB:0|100 N:1.02 Hands:9
Player 2(MP) $10 - VP:0 PFR:0 AF: W: STL:|100 3B:0| CB: N:-0.15 Hands:9
Player 3(CO) $6.14 - VP:22 PFR:11 AF:Inf. W:0| STL: 3B:33| CB:100| N:0.94 Hands:9

Pre Flop: Me(BTN) with [Tc,Ts]
Player 1(UTG) calls 0.10,
Player 2(MP) folds,
Player 3(CO) folds,
Me(BTN) raises 0.40,
Player 5(SB) folds,
Player 6(BB) folds,
Player 1(UTG) calls 0.30

Flop: (Ac,8h,7d)(2 players)
Pot - 0.95
Player 1(EP) bets 0.10,
Me(BTN) raises 0.65,
Player 1(EP) calls 0.55

Turn: 8c (2 players)
Pot - 2.25
Player 1(EP) checks,
Me(BTN) checks

River: As (2 players)
Pot - 2.25
Player 1(EP) bets 0.62,
Me(BTN) calls ?

Last Post 8 years ago by

Turlock

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https://www.pokervip.com/thread/view?forum=poker-strategy&slug=nl10-tt-27&nav=5735c144d39043650b8b45ad

River looks like an easy call down when the ace pairs as it reduces their Ax combos and the odds we get are pretty good. Personally I would have bet the turn again for value around 50% to check back the river and to avoid them leading if we check.

As it happens, their river donk is fairly small and think this is a call.

Got to call for that sizing, if he has ranged you well and is actually getting max value then WP him but a 62/22 or whatever is never doing that. He has even Kx maybe that thinks he is now ahead of 22-66. He has loads of 8x and Ax even with the combos reduced but not enough to fold to that sizing. If he potted it maybe I'd think differently but here I think its snap.

I like Harvs line though. If you bet turn and get raised I'm done, or if after the turn bet he donks river then I'm done too. But I reckon enough 65 or 7x clubs would call turn to make it OK.

I think I would have just called the min bet making it the same as a check behind almost, hoping for a cheap showdown.

As played I would make a very small turn bet to avoid this awkward decision on the river. The problem with calling here now is a lot of his range will be random offsuit Ax, and he can of course do this with 8x. He must have something that called your flop raise, and draws won't be a huge part of that

I wouldn't bother calling this if I was on my game, just can't see a win often enough.

Raising the donkbet is fine imo, I raise them with air even, but once they call it they mostly have a piece and nearly all the pieces improved except a str draw. So we can barrel turn in case they got sticky with whatever but I'm done on the river, by our friend here has already shown they aint going anywhere soon so no 3 barrel for me.

I'd fold river like a nitty nit nit.

@Turlock I really think we do want to raise these min bets. The problem is that these guys make these bets with a lot of garbage, or with smaller pairs or an 8 etc. On the odd occasion they might make a turn min bet with nuts or something, but on the flop I've found they often just min-bet fold their crap, and also try to get cheap showdowns with worse which I don't want. I want to charge them. Also if they have 9T and make a min bet then I want to charge them for their draw. I just think we let too much get there for cheap by just calling and letting random overcards come that'll just make things more difficult for me on later streets anbd lose value for our hand which is often the best when they make this play. So I'm really treating it as a value raise. On the odd occasion they do turn up with an Ace-rag and I can check back turn. If they do this early in an anon sesh then I'll make a note, and always make a note for future on a reg table.

Flop play is pretty reasonable to raise vs the min-bet, usually the best option. I would also follow this up with a very small underbet on turn, really no good need to be giving a free river here and we certainly don't need to balance sizings or anything.

As played river should be a call since the sizing is small and obviously there are now less combos of Ax hands he can have.

Grocker6:

@Grocker6 It's not a problem if they do this with garbage, small pairs or an 8. Most often those hands will check to you and you will check behind on an ace high rainbow board with your second pair. The result is pretty much exactly the same. What would your check call range look like for all hands you would isolate with in this spot if villain doesn't donk?

T9 is a microscopic part of villain's range and whatever value you're getting from that by betting flop and turn you're likely value cutting yourself versus his limped any Ax combos as you've taken the strongest possible line.

I'm not really against raising so much in this case as villain is a limper and confirmed bad player, I just think there's very little difference in EV between both options.

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