SHOVEANDSEE POKER CHALLENGE!?!

Posted 8 years ago

Hello all,

This challenge has a few moving parts and admittedly a few parts undecided. This may in fact become more of a blog than an actual challenge but somewhere in here I will be discussing some poker. Who duh thunk it!?!

I will try my best to not make it the lamest content you’ve ever read; time will tell if I can succeed. This also means I will be making a time commitment to writing something worth reading. Worse come to worse stop in and tell me to I've failed and you'd rather watch paint dry. My therapist tells me that I’m a negatively motivated person, so at least on my end you'll be helping me.

There will likely be some graphs and I may even throw in some thoughts on SSNL live session play. I haven’t played live yet this year but I will.

No, bikini girl thread savers will not be included-but you are more than welcome to google the images whilst you scroll this content-I can’t stop you nor would I try. The internet is a dirty sticky wonderland…

The beginning focus of this challenge is internet poker; more specifically 6 max NL and NL MTTs and we will get to it (promise). We are starting at the bottom and playing on Americas Card Room (ACR). I'm American, hold it against me if you must. This challenge was officially started (or planned) four days ago; hence we already have some minor results...

By all means if something I write strikes you stop in and say hello.


First a brief poker intro and why:

First poker game I learned was Omaha 8. This was the only game in town. This was at a time when poker wasn’t as cool (or sick as the kids say) or as commercialized (and sold out) as it is now. Obviously, before the Moneymaker boom. Poker was pure dirty. If you played it you were most likely a degenerate. Naw, that last line was too soft… If you played poker you were a degenerate. No doubt.

I would classify myself somewhere between the old and new school. At 37 years old I would say my leanings are for the old school. I mean what other flag should a 37 year old plant? In poker years I’ve somehow gotten old…
When I started playing holdem’ at 19 it was me and a bunch of 50+ year old men around the felt. I miss these games so much. When you’re this young a ten or twelve hour session feels like two hours, you can’t get enough. The older you get the minute’s creek by in opposite, though this is actually less relevant to age than it is experience at the felt… Or so I’ve convinced myself…

I loved these “old school” games not because I was crushing them (which I wasn’t) but because at this time poker was more about something entirely different than it is today...

I want the passion back and I want to play poker in my pajamas as much as possible. The only way for this to happen is with improvement. I know my strengths playing live, but I'm yet to discover my strengths in regards to internet poker.

Can I achieve some success?


To Be Continued…
shoveandsee

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shoveandsee

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Posted 8 years ago
Here is the first graph for NL2:
Attached Image




The disaster at the beginning is my attempt to widen my overall ranges. I've adjusted my default range to about 15. Though currently our VPIP and PFR are at 18/14. I'm working on it, but 2NL players seem to enjoy being sticky. Third pair is the new top pair apparently... I will post the next set of results around 20k hands which should be in 4-5 days...

We also did not run well, while running above EV overall. And most importantly there was some tilting and as I look through my database I can see that for certain I lost about more 2.5 stacks than I should have. Though it's a small sample this would add a significant portion to our current bankroll...

Which reminds me...

Our starting BR (4 days prior) was $50
Current is: $95-ish

Though I would like to post graphs for the MTTs I've played HM2 doesn't properly track with ACR for tournaments... I'm going to be keep track manually-but I need to find the rest of my notes before I post the official result. It is $37-ish dollars and most of the volume involving $0.55 buy-in tourneys...
Posted 8 years ago
Hey buddy welcome and sick intro!

Starting of poker learning a mixed game like PLO8 imo will stand you in a much better spot than most and if i was you I would still concentrate heavily on those type of games! I think there is some sick value to be had there especially in live tournaments!

Which other games can you play?
Posted 8 years ago
Jon-PokerVIP: Hey buddy welcome and sick intro!

Starting of poker learning a mixed game like PLO8 imo will stand you in a much better spot than most and if i was you I would still concentrate heavily on those type of games! I think there is some sick value to be had there especially in live tournaments!

Which other games can you play?


Thanks Jon!

I'm talking fixed limit Omaha 8, not PLO. That would be totally insane! Cheeky That is as a first game... lol

I had decent success playing (PLO8 and fixed limit Omaha) micro and low buy-in tournaments on Pokerstars. Obviously, as an American can't do that now. Currently ACR runs some PLO8 tournaments-and I will be playing some... I wish there were some limit holdem and omaha tournaments but online and live they are a rare format to find. There might also be some live tournament opportunities here in the states the "Heartland Poker Tour" travels to a few spots close to where I live so I might be making some appearances this year if I can make some trips...

I play almost everything. I haven't learned badugi or open faced Chinese... Though some might say these are not really poker... Their close enough to offer an edge if one puts in the work.

I also enjoy Seven Card Stud Hi/Low Split. Whenever I play this game I kill it! The last time I played it was $10-$20 with a half kill; low card on the board brings it in for $5. Half kill (limited go to $15-$30; with a $10 bring in). I helped to convince the casino to run this game with another player as well as a concensus of bad regs... The game only ran once a week for a month before all the bad regs had-had enough...

I also played PLO with Moneymaker and I have a story to go with it, but I'll leave it to another time...

What about you Jon?

Where do you play? What do you play the most of?
What's your biggest tournament bink?
Posted 8 years ago
MTT Update:

Ok so I found all my stats which I tracked in regards for MTTs. All but three of these tournaments are $0.55, two being $1.10 and one being $0.11. No doubt at the buy-in these things are true donkaments. Shoving AK in the middle stages and getting called with Q9s or worse is very common. So far I’ve been very fortunate-variance wise, in these things...

Total Tournaments: 32
Profit/Loss: $37.26

In the Money: 12
Final Table: 7
Finish:
1st: 1
2nd: 1
3rd: 2
4th: 0
5th: 1
6th: 0
7th: 1
8th: 1
9th: 0
Posted 8 years ago
Bankroll Management & Plan

Due to some good variance, especially in regards to MTTs the bankroll hit over $100. I read this article:

https://www.pokervip.com/strategy-articles/maximize-your-poker-earnings/shot-taking-bankroll-management

And so I made the following document:

Bankroll Management: Part One
How many $ do I need in my roll before I shoot the next limit?

Currently at 2NL; will take a shot at 5NL at $100
One table of 5NL at $100-$105
Two Tables of 5NL to $110
Three Tables of 5NL to $115
Four tables of 5NL to $120
Five tables of 5NL to $125
Set for 5NL at $130+

I will move down?: No 5NL Tables If Bankroll drops to less than $100.

When will I move to the limit after?
From 5NL; will take a shot at 10NL at $200
One table of 10NL at $200-$210
Two Tables of 10NL to $220
Three Tables of 10NL to $230
Four tables of 10NL to $240
Five tables of 10NL to $250
Set for 10NL at $130

At what stage will I move back down a further limit if my shot fails and I swing down?
Currently at 2NL, shot at 5NL will be taken once bankroll reaches $100 and will take a shot at 10 once Bankroll reaches $200. Tables will be eliminated once the bankroll drops below $100 (5NL) and $200 (10NL) at each limit. A couple keys are that this strategy requires patients to achieve the next level or potentially to move down. I will turn off the auto top off button-once the higher levels become intergraded; in order to help with potential variance and keeping track of win/loss.
Posted 8 years ago
Super solid plan there man and glad the article could help you!

How good are you are sticking to these things?
Posted 8 years ago
@Jon-PokerVIP

How good?

Honestly, no Idea. Though if I experience some negative variance usually in the case of a few days of run bad and especially if that run bad turns to play bad I would usually hop limits... Busto or Robusto!?! My poker profit/loss this year is at -$600 for online with a lot of small deposits.

This might sound crazy but I've never actually written out a formal plan. To be fair we shall see. But I will do my best to be accountable and stick to this.

Online I need to work on my pain threshold and take a more disciplined approach to achieve that. Not to mention (or maybe it goes without saying) use discipline to improve my overall game.

Thanks for posting here Jon-

I asked you a few couple of questions above I'll repeat them here:

Where do you play? What do you play the most of?
What's your biggest tournament bink?
Posted 8 years ago
MTT Update:

Ok so with how we ran the first 32 tournaments I had to expect the average to go down a bit. Not much I could do about it either. I’m reminding myself that this is a good thing; I played well just didn’t see a positive result. That said it was hard to get some stacks built up most of time. Being in situations where shoving a 5-10BB stack is never ideal. I only made one final table (4th) then got brutalized with A’s when the chip leader shipped it pre from the BU (and for 2/3s of his stack) with 23s.

Other stuff:
At the moment BR is at $125 and we are showing good profit over a short sample of hands with 5NL. Hope to be fully at 5NL by the weekend. I might also have enough Rakeback built, if I run at least break even, to move up without mixing in 2NL.

Total Tournaments: 50
Profit/Loss: $32.28

In the Money: 15
Final Table: 8
Finish:
1st: 1
2nd: 1
3rd: 2
4th: 1
5th: 1
6th: 0
7th: 1
8th: 1
9th: 0
Posted 8 years ago
Hey buddy sorry I missed those questions

1) Mainly euro sites such as microgaming, Sky, Unibet and TonyBet.

2) Mid - high stakes cash games. Has been this way for 5+ years.

3) $60k i think is still the biggest online and live it was like 25k finaling the Irish Open just over a year ago
Posted 8 years ago
Bankroll Update: $126.50

Went a on tilt late last night was fortunate to quit pretty quickly. As per usual the focus of the tilt was directed at a spew tard who suddenly was playing absolutely perfectly! Haha!!!

Luckily I spent today grinding it back for a small win. I played a few more small MTTs but I think for this next 10k hands I'm going to lay off them till I break past $140-ish or well on my way with 5NL.

I'm thinking of setting some monthly goals for the challenge. If anyone is reading this I'm open to considering some possibilities-I'm open to suggestions...

Here is my graph at 20K hands:

Attached Image


Posted 8 years ago
Also I posted a Hand up: https://www.pokervip.com/forum/poker-strategy/5nl-6max-2-s-full

Though I should also keep it here as well.

Overall I haven't run into hands which I felt lost. That said, I've made mistakes. I just also realize they're mistakes (or at least I think so). I've minimized bad call downs pretty effectively at this point so its just something to work on going forward.

One challenge I have of making certain folds are thinking about the stakes, such as the small amount of money is being played for. In reality the only thing that should effect a decision are the opponent and information.

I'm getting better but have a long way to go!
Posted 8 years ago
MTT Update:

Getting absolutely crushed! A lot of coolers at the live tables and tournaments. I also made a few mistakes along the way. It is really difficult to play optimally while getting sucked out on and coolers in the meantime... Defiantly need to play better! With 6max I'm experimenting with opening any two cards from the button if fold to steal averages 80 or higher from the SB & BB. I know in principle this is supposed to work, yet in the short term it's not.

It also titling to see win rates going down the tubes... GRRRRR!?!!

Total Tournaments: 60
Profit/Loss: $30.31

In the Money: 17
Final Table: 9
Finish:
1st: 1
2nd: 1
3rd: 2
4th: 1
5th: 1
6th: 1
7th: 1
8th: 1
9th: 0
Posted 8 years ago
General and MTT Update:

Current Bankroll: $140.45

Total Tournaments: 70
Profit/Loss: $37.86

In the Money: 21
Final Table: 11
Finish:
1st: 1
2nd: 2
3rd: 2
4th: 1
5th: 1
6th: 1
7th: 1
8th: 2
9th: 0

Notes:

Recovered what I lost yesterday. I played a couple of hands poorly at the end of the session and decided to focus the rest of the night with micro MTTs. Early in the session I played a couple hundred hands of PLO $5, I don't have the full version of HM2 (only for holdem) so it didn't track but I did well and it was nice to play something else. Was very close to binking first instead of second but I was lucky to get second beings the blinds had gone so high.

Been really enjoying Bodo Sbrzesny videos on youtube.

Posted 8 years ago
Little spoiler is we may be having some Bodo love here on this site soon! Maybe I shouldn't type that encase it doesn't happen but fingers crossed!
Posted 8 years ago
@Jon-PokerVIP

Such a positive if you do. I really enjoy what I'm watching with Bodo and find myself scribbling notes along the way.
Posted 8 years ago
Cool thread man, ill be dropping in and checking it out. I love your bank roll management post. I am pretty nitty when it comes to BR as in the past when I was first starting out I played wayyyy outside my roll. I know some people who are really good a shot taking and can move down no problem but it's much harder most grinders
Posted 8 years ago
@squadgrinder

Hey thanks man.

I've been mixing in the tables a couple of days now. The challenge is keeping the two limits mixed as well as playing MTTs at the same time. My winrate for 5NL had gone down also though I'm still up a couple of buyins. I most likely need to do more off the table work to get better winrates...

thanks for stopping in-
Posted 8 years ago
Sh#@!

I just tilted off 3 stacks at 5NL...

The how or why is pretty irrelevant. The fact of the matter is internet poker tilts me. Don't get me wrong when I say irrelevant I mean I tilt regardless and at this point I question my own ability to control it. At this point I certainly cannot. I wish I could understand it better why I tilt for such small amounts vs almost never tilting when I play live for much bigger amounts of money. I have leanings toward ego (as the reason) and I don't feel as if I'm making big mistakes poker wise... (though I may be) but this is more about emotional control.

Sorry for the downer post. I really feel like I'm wasting time. for the most part I'm disappointed in myself. On the plus side I quit pretty quickly and I won't be taking any crazy shots at 100nl or something... hehe-

The convenience of internet poker is certainly a draw it would be nice to get good enough to 40-50k hands of 25nl a month for some side income, but in reality this is going to be a lot harder than I would have guessed it-throw in my tilt issues and it might certainly be impossible...

So much for the OP and not creating a lame thread- Laugh

Best of luck at the tables-
Posted 8 years ago
We've all been there man, I feel for yah. I listened to the mental game of poker audio book by Jared Tindler and it really helped. I also stopped focusing on results and looked at the long term. I have goals of making good money with this game but not the soul source of my income. I hope to one day be a 50-100NL reg or maybe grind 5-10, 10-20 live poker. I think of now as "practice" and just focus on become a better player.

This game is cruel but you have to treat it like the real business it is.