CrazyCookie

Nah i don't need to see it - it is truly your business and a dope thing to do as a player. You guys do whatever you want basically I was just trying to share my thoughts.

Yeah, I didn't mean so you could check up on it! I meant as then would be stimulus to further discussion on the forum.

thetallpaul: Yeah, I didn't mean so you could check up on it! I meant as then would be stimulus to further discussion on the forum.

Ah i see yeh up to you guys. One thing which is sick about this is a dope way is you guys have developed this from the forum. Whole point was to bring people together so oioi

yeah dream team PVIP, another session in the books, did it with my mate seating so didn't really record any hands. Think I might have slipped a bit into just play mode so might get back to the more in depth note taking from now on.

Probably won't have another session for a few days now as I have cricket tomorrow and want to get back to learning some more Forex soon as I've neglected that a fair bit!

Graph and full results v Snowie so far

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Error rate I believe is so high because preflop we fold so often vs 2x because our range is aimed at playing a higher raises size. Therefore the error rate is pretty much pointless :') Could take about 66% of it which makes it around 6 which is pretty much perfect

Anyone else been using Snowie much this wee? I got in another session the other day and comfortably played my best ever poker and certainly didn't need to look at the ranges as much.

Share some of your stories ppl!!

Snowie does not help me wee. If you're using GTO pissing strategies then poker has got hold of your mind and you need to get to GA and start following some steps.

I am still beating Snowie up a bit, think my winrate per hand is about double yours for same winnings roughly over half the sample. Running really well vs him though so nothing to read into that.

You know the other day you were talking about 2 sizes for betting with a big polarized one and smaller more merged one. It feels like Snowie does that with me. When Snowie pots it he either has nuts or air.

Yeah Snowie will balance his betsizing, but I think that it is built in a way that it uses one bet size for its entire range, and if he's range is more polarized it goes big and more middling then goes smaller.

I think this is why it suggests to check in some weird spots then also bet in some odd spots. He can't bet pot with 2ns pair but can bet 50%, so depending on his range he will value bet thin or check back quite a few strong hands.

How do you guys take these cool pictures of overwiev?

I use snaggit, software that you can choose which parts of the screen to screen grab

CrazyCookie: Another session in v Snowie, was a hilarious session really, lots of big pots and had a number of over bet bluffs which was great. In terms of EV I think it was pretty close, I had AA v KK in one spot where we gii OTR and another where we gii OTF me with AKs (2OC+NFD) v QQ which I lost so probably about right. Early spots my bluffs didn't really come off but later on they did.

Few hands:

Call KQs OTB v MP flop AJ7 and I figure this is perfect to bet in my 50%-60% psb when checked to as blocks a lot of hands villain calls with (TPSK 2nd pair KK, QQ) and has a GS and will fit into the range with my top one pair hands where I triple barrel 55%-65%-80%. Snowie x/c. Turn is T so we now have the nuts. Our range consists of nut straight, 98, tp and some other hands that block draws. I decide that we should continue with our TP hands, straights and bluffs to then bet a polarized range of straights and bluffs OTR. Villain x/r. I figure we can mix it up here but we can't really bluff shove so probably best to call with all our straights and maybe AT which turned two pair if that is in our flop cbet range. river is a blank and we call the shove v AA.

I don't understand why Snowie does not Cbet AAs here. I mean MPs range should have 77s,AAs,JJs,AJs,AJo,A7 in it and is a lot stronger then buttons overall range. Also, once it does decide i think it should C/C down especially on the T river.

Call Ax9h BB vCO. Flop 6h8h3x. Not sure on x.r raising range here. We have all sets and some combo draws so guess we x/c over pairs, TP 2nd pair some fd and then x/r some fd some sets and combo draws. Put this in my x/r range as we also block 99, 89, 97.

I prefer to put this in my Check/call range to be honest but i can be on board with raising in this spot.

EP open AQo 3b and we 4b (range KK+ AQo) call. Flop KQx. Decide I have to check AA here so should also with KK and therefore AQo. We can x/c all our range as we have the nuts, AA and AQ which blocks AK, QQ, KQs. Turn is blank if v bets we fold AQ and gii with AA/KK. x/x Deide we should value bet AA/KK here so can shove AQo to get him to fold Kx. Board did pair OTR (running 8s) so best to do so here as we beat KQ which maybe he checks back sometimes OTR? Expect SNowie says this is a blunder and we can check but then we also should check some AA/KK hands and I think shoving them is a higher EV.
LOL just checked the AQ hands and c4b pre is a blunder, calling OTF is a blunder and shoving river is a blunder. welll fu Snowie

looks like x/c is much better v him which makes a lot of sense really now I think about it.

I think 4 betting AQo is definitely to wide. I think a against a 3 bet from almost any position from EP this hand is a call.

Beautiful bluff shove spot:

3b A5s v EP. We have super tight range here like AKs KK+ A5s 54s 65s. Flop is 2s4s8x. Figure we should cbet everything here as we have 12 combos over pairs 16 combos of suited hands with 2 nut flush combos, 6gs 3 btm pair 2 GS+FD. Bet call. Turn fd gets there but Ks. so we have one nut flush 3 sets, 6 AA some one other flush then pair. Decide to now check some KK/AA along with 54 and bet everything else. River is another spade and we literally now have 2 nut combos i one straight flush and a few A5s non flush combos.... shove everything and what you gonna do eh?

Finished about +$13 in 312 hands, will get another session or two before the end of today and put up todays results

Yeah thinkni agree with the check call, AQo is my bluff in this spot with KK/AA being my value combos

I honestly prefer a hand like KJo as a 4bet bluff from EP. The problem is, a lot of 3bet bluffs contain Ax blockers so it makes sense to not 4bet Ax hands since when you do have Ax there more likely to have a value combo themselves. Also, KJo blocks KKs,JJs,AJo,AK,KQ, lots of value hands.

yeah true, I think KJ or KQo may be better as like you said they block less bluffs, will play around a bit with my range in that spot. Don't hate AQo as a bluff as my range is so strong but given we want folds when 4b bluffing KQo/KJo makes more sense

Pretty happy so far with results- obz run good ;). I think the error rate is a little unfair, I've given up about $200 of blunders in three spots which in real life are no way blunders so I'm not really worried about that. Got in a few tough spots today which Snowie raged at me for, but it is hard to tell if it's error size is correct in those spots as my range will be constructed quite different to it's- still likely that I can play better but maybe not losing 15bb in EV :')

CrazyCookie: yeah true, I think KJ or KQo may be better as like you said they block less bluffs, will play around a bit with my range in that spot. Don't hate AQo as a bluff as my range is so strong but given we want folds when 4b bluffing KQo/KJo makes more sense

Interesting couple of spots in my last session:

Snowie opens btn I 3b K9s he calls. Flop Q62, I have FD. I cbet as I quite a few value hands I bet here and quite a few mid strength hands I check call so my range natrually fits the board quite well. Snowie calls. Turn is an 8 I continue as I still have a lot of value hands and I plan to double barrel bluff here a decent amount especially with fd/OC. River is a 2 and I really now hate the spot. I can shove for just over pot and be fairly balanced with QQ, KK+ AQ then bluff missed fd that block AQ/KQ but should we be balanced here? I feel Snowie and probably most 50nl+ regs will call Qx here so bluffing seems a little redundant. Worse than Qx folds a lot OTT so I'm tempted to take an exploitative lien here and value bet only but also check some of my value hands to catch bluffs- QQ/KK might be best as villain can also make mistake of value betting AQ lol.

Is this a SB 3bet or a BB 3bet?
Flop: Pretty easy one to play. I think both betting and check/calling are fine. But given we have no showdown value and just a draw, i prefer a bet. As for your our range for betting here. I think the best 3 barrels here will be A,6,A,2,AK,AJ. As for value we do pretty well against villian here Range vs Range. We have AAs,KKS, QQs, AQ so yet another good reason to bet.
Turn: I think we can fire a second time here since K,9 blocks KQ, but it is certainly not a ideal bluff candidate. We also have equity to improve so betting can never be to bad. If the turn was a 9, or K and we make a pair i am checking turn almost 100% of the time also on board pairs i would be doing the same.
River: Yeah, i think bluffing with a missed draw here is futile especially in a 3bet pot. We just have a terrible hand to do it with, and since we block draws with our flush draw it just makes it really hard for us to have much fold equity. So therefore, i think a check/fold in order.

Second spot: I call in BB w/ATo v BTN. Flop is J47 x/x Turn A. Think this is an easy bet blocking decent number of hands w/GS and OC to Jx that check back flop/TT. Snowie calls. River J. Snowie and most reags now I don't think will fold this river everrrrr Ax calls as I don't bet loads of Jx OTT and Jx obz snaps. I have 6 sets (44/77) and AJ so like 11-12 value combos total? I could bluff this hands and KT BUT again, exploitative to just value bet here. Thoughts?

I would of played this one differently and checked turn with a top pair weak kicker. We need some Ax in our Check/calling range on turn here so we cant just be blown of our hand on river since we will have so many weak hands like Jx,99s,88s that we cant fold on turn. As played though, i check most of my range on this river even some boats as we don't have many Jx in our turn betting range while opponent has a lot of Jx in his range.

UPDATE:

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trollord59:

Just realised, the ATo hand I had QTo! My bad! W/ATo I would also be checking turn, don't mind betting some of the time though as we have a lot of hands we bluff with so need to add in some value hands.

Agree 100% with the K9s, it was in the SB I flat K9s in the BB, I think that sometimes playing Snowie I try to balance my range a little too much and should think a little mroe about villains range and not just my own. No point in balancing my betting range if villain calls close to 100% or indeed folds close to 100%!

Just realised, the ATo hand I had QTo! My bad! W/ATo I would also be checking turn, don't mind betting some of the time though as we have a lot of hands we bluff with so need to add in some value hands.

Well the bluff makes perfect sense then. Q,10 high is pretty much the nut low here and is a good of candidate as any to bluff with so well played.

Agree 100% with the K9s, it was in the SB I flat K9s in the BB, I think that sometimes playing Snowie I try to balance my range a little too much and should think a little mroe about villains range and not just my own. No point in balancing my betting range if villain calls close to 100% or indeed folds close to 100%![/quote]

No i disagree. Snowie is marketed as the perfect player so you should definitely treat it as your playing against a optimal opponent and consider your range. Even then, i think we will have better hands to 3 barrell here with so i still think a check/fold is the correct play.

Only thought with the QTo is that we get so few folds we could exploitatively bluff less.

Although Snowie is marketed as the perfect player I think it i s quite a way from perfect and is beatable. Not saying I can beat it but I think we can exploit it in quite a few spots where it expects us to have more bluffs than we do. Sure we might give up some EV earlier on in the hand but gain more than back with a different range otr. Also it takes some odd bluff lines from time to time that if it knew my range wouldn't ever make.

Example: it cold 4b in a co v MP v EP spot. I have AKs and call. My range for calling here is like AKs, KK, 50% QQ that I 3b pre with. I then 5b AA and fold pretty much the rest. Flop comes KQx I x/c turn is another K x/c river is a blank and he shoves for about 30% pot. I have quads, Qs full and trip kings. Snowie turns up with 56s no fd. I get that he needs to bluff this as checking down not making money, but v my range bluffing at all is ludicrous.

You have to remember Snowie treats all its opposition as its playing against itself IE: what it deems to be an opponent playing "Optimally". I still don't understand the 5,6s hand though. I would guess it needs to have a bluff there every once in a blue moon.

Yeah for sure, I guess the 56 it fold AQs or something that calls flop and turn? Who knows haha. I also try and play in a way u would in real life, so like sure it opens min from EP but I'm not going to defend super wide in the BB because we just don't fave the 2x size that often. Good fun to look at my range v Snowie range in some spots and realise I have far less bluff combos than him or far more given how I play earlier streets

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