Nothing else we can or should do here. We are getting a good price with a ton of equity. I don't think we need to bluff raise or jam turn and we can just basically get paid once we hit and if we miss just fold.

Well played. You can start to consider shoving turn with more info if villain is getting out of line a lot but readless I'd play it the same.

I prefer betting pot or slight overbet otf. Removes all of his floats, so our fe is at its highest. If villain raises this its the easiest fold ever, if they call they have tp and will not be folding much OTT so we get to realise all of our equity and put less in that two streets whilst getting more hands to fold.

On the K turn we could then actually continue to then bet big otr again and get a huge chunk of his range to fold.

It seems unlikely that overbetting the flop is correct in theory. Although there is reasonable chance it has a positive expectation. Not likely to be maxEV though.

Anyway, easy bet with the intention of double (probably triple) barreling. Hand is played fine vs raise. Could Jam turn vs over-aggro as komododragon mentions, but probably doesn't apply at these limits.

Why not? Wet maximise fold equity, don't put in money ott because villain had tp so much and get to see the river and realise our equity v top of his range for cheapest price.

Triple barrel is fine but we can also overbet with our nutted value range, sets, two pair and make a normal bet size with hands which have more draw equity than JT or not nutted but can call a raise- KK+ KQ+. Villain can't do much v either size and both ranges are balanced. Although the smaller size is capped we still have a huge ammount of bluff catchers along with hands that have enough equity to call a raise.

It's not a board I bluff ATC on as it hits villains range quite well so I like checking back some nfd and weak paira worse than Qx along with our trash.

I like the way hero played this with little info on villain except I would bet 1/2 pot flop but that's just the way I do it.

We can always make a lot of moves/bluffs/this and that, but much of the time it's not needed and after getting raised on the flop how much fold equity do we think we have versus this villain? Not much I'd expect.
Just think at nl10 we can overplay too often, we only have a gutshot after all on the flop.
I leave backdoor this, bluff catchers that and side door the other to you guys who can use it properly, rather than as an excuse to continue like some of us down in the trenches.

Probably why you haven't moved up....

We are still playing poker whether it's 10nl or 1knl. I have been playing 10nl recently to start again after a few months and backdoors are so useful. We can x/c btm pair with a bdfd at 10nl and then just bet otr when v checks to us as they give up loads ott. Bluff catchers also important, you need hands in your range that you are going to call down with and won't expect to beat anything but a bluff unless we know villain never bluffs. If he does then he is making money against us every time he does.

Saying oh its 10nl you don't need to use it is just being super lazy. No, you don't HAVE to use them and you can beat 10nl easy without a lot of that knowledge but for a far far smaller winrate and when u move up then what you going to say? Oh 25nl or 50nl is unbeatable?

Also half pot bet on this flop texture sucks balls. When we have a value hand here we should be betting big because villain has more equity so will call more and be more likely to call correctly. We don't make him make a mistake. Big bet makes him make a mistake by calling too wide oop with a draw. We can also bluff more by betting big and we have a heck of a lot more potential bluffs/semi bluffs here than value hands.

No reply to that from me except I just did move up and my wr was huge.
I stand by my no (or at least very few) fancy moves play at least tho for now. When it goes wrong I'll change it. For those of you who can and do use that stuff effectively, well done, nice job.

I could see the point about the 1/2 pot bet though, maybe that's something for me to look at.

From 10nl to 20nl? No differnece. Not saying that you can't beat these limits not making "fancy moves" but saying they are redundant at 10nl is lazy IMO. If you want to play 50nl then you should really know about them and know how to use them. What better place to start than in games where the knowledge if them gives you an even bigger edge?

@CrazyCookie I could not agree more, my post was obviously misinterpreted; I meant not to imply those moves were redundant, just overused.
I won't comment more on this here to avoid further misunderstanding, my writing is far from professional.

Haha fair enough mate wasn't meant to insult just saying it how it is. I find it very odd when people assume 10nl and like 1knl are different games. The players are tougher sure. The dynamics are different sure. But if we with with ranges accordingly then we can still use the same knowledge at 10nl as any other limit. Just got to plug in different calling, being, finding and raising ranges.

Anything is possible exploitatively, but as far as most GTO calculators are telling us, there is no good reason to have an overbetting range on the flop. It will usually be a selection of different bet-sizes between about 40% and 80% of the pot.

Btw, shoving all-in on the flop probably maximises our Feq, but it's not about maximising Feq, it's about maximising expectation, which an overbet probably doesn't do. If it was just about maximising Feq, we'd just shove all-in on every flop. Very hard for me to use maths to prove that we shouldn't overbet shove all-in on every flop, although our intuition usually tells us this is not good poker.

@w34z3l I would disagree with that. There will become a threshold where villain will fold everything but x% of the top of his range and once we hit that number need not bet any more to maximise fold equity.

I'm not saying that this is GTO but given the weaknesses of players an overbet may well be more profitable than an 80% bet. Villains range is likely to be elastic but will not actually change much when facing a 40% bet or an 80%, but will change fairly dramatically once we get to 130%. It is not that unlikely that by betting 130% villain folds all draws which are either beating us or have substantial equity, all pairs other than top pair and all potential floats. Once he has called we can therefore narrow his range down to TP+ and can then exploit this by only putting more money into the pot when we make the nuts.

100% agree that theoretically this won't be the highest EV, but in practice I don't see any reason why it won't be given micro stakes leaks.

The exact threshold where we maximise Feq is not important, so no need to focus on that detail at all. It wasn't the point of the argument. I was simply saying that our goal is not necessarily to maximise fold-equity in all situations, otherwise we'd probably just be making abnormally large gets all of the time. So if we say something like "X sizing must be better because it generates more folds", then we are not necessarily thinking along the right lines. Specifically as exploitative bluff we are interested in getting the best price. So if a much larger bet doesn't generate proportionally much more folds, then a smaller bet with less Feq will be highest EV seeing as we get a better price overall.

I have yet to see any GTO engines recommending overbetting in a flop situations, remember that equities run super close in most flop situations and a large equity difference between two ranges will still be noticeably less than 5%. There are spots where it seems betting large, close to pot is good, but as far as I know, overbetting flops doesn't happen much if ever. Exploitatively, I'm sure the line is reasonable, once again, this wasn't the point of my post.

Fair enough I think that it may be just that exploitatively villain's folding range becomes disproportionately wider when facing an overbet so we make the larger bet +EV. Once he calls an over bet (or even just pot) he likely has a hand that won't fold OTT so we don't need to now bluff the turn and realise our entire equity.

Do you still this strategy being profitable? I employ it on a lot of wet textures where I cbet big with my weaker draws (BDFD/GS) along with my sets and TPTK, then a more standard size bet with stronger draws and some weaker TP hands. This way villain can't really do much as if he begins to raise either sizes we will have a decent calling range and although our smaller size bet range is capped it still has a lot of hands which are ahead of villains calling range and act as bluff catchers v x/r.